Right to work(ers)

[McParadigm]

Wild.

APPLETON - It was unclear whether a group of former ThedaCare employees would be allowed to start their new jobs at Ascension Northeast Wisconsin Monday after lawyers for both health systems made their first appearance in court Friday morning.

The uncertainty is the latest development in a battle over health care employees that began late Thursday and is now playing out in court. It comes as staff shortages strain health systems nationwide — nearly one in five health care workers have quit their jobs since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic.

ThedaCare requested Thursday that an Outagamie County judge temporarily block seven of its employees who had applied for and accepted jobs at Ascension from beginning work there on Monday until the health system could find replacements for them.

The employees were part of an 11-member interventional radiology and cardiovascular team. Each of them were employed at-will, meaning they were not under an obligation to stay at ThedaCare for a certain amount of time.

Outagamie County Circuit Court Judge Mark McGinnis granted ThedaCare's request and held an initial hearing Friday morning. The case will get a longer hearing at 10 a.m. Monday.

McGinnis told lawyers for both health systems they should try to work out a temporary agreement by the end of the day Friday about the employees' status until Monday's hearing.

Otherwise, he said, the order prohibiting them from going to work at Ascension would be final until a further ruling was made. That means the seven health care workers would not be working at either hospital on Monday.

In the complaint, lawyers for ThedaCare wrote that Ascension had "shockingly" chosen to "poach" the employees during a stressful time for health care.

A Thursday statement from Ascension said the employees were not recruited but instead decided to apply for open job postings. It was Ascension's understanding that ThedaCare had the opportunity to make counter-offers but declined, the statement said.

Muth argued that ThedaCare had weeks to come up with better offers to keep their employees or figure out alternate staffing solutions and instead chose to initiate court action days before the workers were set to start at Ascension, resulting in "a mess of ThedaCare's own making."

In the complaint, ThedaCare attorneys wrote that the organization found out Dec. 21 that four interventional radiology technicians had accepted offers with Ascension, and learned Dec. 29 that two nurses planned to make the same move. On Jan. 7, they learned one additional nurse planned to quit and work at Ascension.

Ascension had offered the employees a better benefits package that ThedaCare did not match, Muth said.

Timothy Breister, an Appleton resident and one of the seven employees involved in the systems' dispute, submitted a letter to McGinnis Friday before the hearing describing his experience.

One of his colleagues received an offer from Ascension that was attractive "not just in pay but also a better work/life balance," which caused others on his team to apply, Breister wrote.

After approaching ThedaCare with the chance to match the offers they'd been given, Breister wrote that they were told "the long term expense to ThedaCare was not worth the short term cost," and no counter-offer would be made.

[spike]

How was that not immediately tossed out

[JuanHamm]

That's pretty god damn ridiculous. Especially in a right to work state.

[Chris_H_2]

That's pretty god damn ridiculous. Especially in a right to work state.

I don’t think that this is a right-to-work issue. It’s an anti-raiding issue. I’m not defending the ruling; I think it’s stupid for other reasons (the plaintiff knew about this for a bit and deliberately chose to wait to sue; it’s hard to claim being irreparable harm with a self-created emergency). But most states recognize claims for improper poaching.

[lennytheweedwhacker]

Doesn't right to work only apply to union membership?

[Chris_H_2]

Doesn't right to work only apply to union membership?

Yes

[lennytheweedwhacker]

Doesn't right to work only apply to union membership?

Yes

I always hear people use it in non-applicable situations and then I feel like I’m crazy.

[simple schoolboy]

Why are there employment contracts where almost nothing is enforceable? For instance, in private education they get a contract in the spring if the employer intends to keep them on for the next year.

"I Intend to work here next year, but neither party has any obligation to that end." No contract is a nice 3 months heads up that you need to find a new job, but the language is longer than it needs to be if thats all thats being signalled.

[Chris_H_2]

Why are there employment contracts where almost nothing is enforceable? For instance, in private education they get a contract in the spring if the employer intends to keep them on for the next year.

"I Intend to work here next year, but neither party has any obligation to that end." No contract is a nice 3 months heads up that you need to find a new job, but the language is longer than it needs to be if thats all thats being signalled.

Employment contracts are rarely for a specific term. Their primary purpose is to reflect compensation, benefits, termination, restrictive covenants, and non-disclosures.

[simple schoolboy]

Why are there employment contracts where almost nothing is enforceable? For instance, in private education they get a contract in the spring if the employer intends to keep them on for the next year.

"I Intend to work here next year, but neither party has any obligation to that end." No contract is a nice 3 months heads up that you need to find a new job, but the language is longer than it needs to be if thats all thats being signalled.

Employment contracts are rarely for a specific term. Their primary purpose is to reflect compensation, benefits, termination, restrictive covenants, and non-disclosures.

They make sense to protect the employer/ restrict the employee through NDA/ arbitration requirements, but unless private school teachers are regularly agreeing to salary reductions I don't understand why they are signed annually.

[Norris]

It's simple. Kill the owners.

[McParadigm]

[JuanHamm]

Did anything happen with this today?

[spike]

JFC

[McParadigm]

Did anything happen with this today?

[JuanHamm]

Good news

[spike]

Does this go here?

[wease]

Does this go here?

I agree with every word.

[Mickey]

Ah just figured out which podcast some of y'all listen to lmao.