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An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 5:13 pm Posts: 39820 Location: 6000 feet beyond man and time.
elliseamos wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
People assume Nixon was bad because he resigned under impeachment, but what he did would barely make the news these days.
I'm not going that far. He resigned while under impeachment because what he did was bad (then & now). He also negotiated with the Vietnamese undermining Johnson in order to get elected. But some of what he did while in office gets overlooked as good for the country/planet.
Someone was trying to redpill people on Nixon the other day, but I can't remember the argument enough to argue for it. Maybe schoolboy knows.
Joined: Thu January 10, 2013 2:19 am Posts: 8898 Location: SOUTH PORTLAND
So far, Barry O. has ranked outside the top 2 only once (Burt).
I know with my own rankings it had more to do with the field than his own warring & pharmaceutical loving 8 years. He did get Bin Laden, he did lead us out of the financial collapse, and he did get the Affordable Care Act also known as Socialist Death Squad Plan passed.
Clinton seems oddly low on lists across the board. Is this about them as humans or as presidents? No major wars, strong economic growth, balanced budget. None of this is really because of him but he was president over a pretty good 8 year period.
_________________ "I want to see the whole picture--as nearly as I can. I don't want to put on the blinders of 'good and bad,' and limit my vision."-- In Dubious Battle
Joined: Thu January 10, 2013 2:19 am Posts: 8898 Location: SOUTH PORTLAND
4/5 wrote:
Clinton seems oddly low on lists across the board. Is this about them as humans or as presidents? No major wars, strong economic growth, balanced budget. None of this is really because of him but he was president over a pretty good 8 year period.
I knocked him for the crime bill and Brian Williams would like to tell you about the Bosnian conflict.
Clinton seems oddly low on lists across the board. Is this about them as humans or as presidents? No major wars, strong economic growth, balanced budget. None of this is really because of him but he was president over a pretty good 8 year period.
I knocked him for the crime bill and Brian Williams would like to tell you about the Bosnian conflict.
Major wars. You have two Vietnam War presidents and a War on Terrorism president ranked higher. There were plenty of foreign misadventures during Clinton's presidency but they're not even comparable to those.
You also should knock him for DOMA, though.
_________________ "I want to see the whole picture--as nearly as I can. I don't want to put on the blinders of 'good and bad,' and limit my vision."-- In Dubious Battle
Joined: Thu January 10, 2013 2:19 am Posts: 8898 Location: SOUTH PORTLAND
4/5 wrote:
elliseamos wrote:
4/5 wrote:
Clinton seems oddly low on lists across the board. Is this about them as humans or as presidents? No major wars, strong economic growth, balanced budget. None of this is really because of him but he was president over a pretty good 8 year period.
I knocked him for the crime bill and Brian Williams would like to tell you about the Bosnian conflict.
Major wars. You have two Vietnam War presidents and a War on Terrorism president ranked higher. There were plenty of foreign misadventures during Clinton's presidency but they're not even comparable to those.
You also should knock him for DOMA, though.
I wasn't knocking Clinton for Bosnia and/or peace, but you're right, DOMA was shitty. I like him right where he is. Johnson & Nixon have significant policy pluses (in my book) that allow for Vietnam to be on their record (as misguided/mismanaged as it was). I mean Vietnam started even before Kennedy, so everyone gets an F on that one. Ditto Obama & his misguided/mismanaged with his WoT powers/authorization, compared to what he did domestically.
I wasn't knocking Clinton for Bosnia and/or peace, but you're right, DOMA was shitty. I like him right where he is. Johnson & Nixon have significant policy pluses (in my book) that allow for Vietnam to be on their record (as misguided/mismanaged as it was). I mean Vietnam started even before Kennedy, so everyone gets an F on that one. Ditto Obama & his misguided/mismanaged with his WoT powers/authorization, compared to what he did domestically.
That's fine, there aren't any great answers. I probably look at from the standpoint of doing the least harm, so presidents of misguided wars are going to be punished more severely in my book. Nixon also had some disastrous economic policies that people tend to forget about for some reason like price/wage controls, pushing the Fed to be overly expansionary during election years, severing the link to gold, which combined with LBJ's Guns and Butter sent the U.S. into a decade of stagflation. I get that he wins points for the EPA and detente, but the war on drugs, opposition to bussing, the southern strategy, and his general megalomania (even compared to the other 9 megalomaniacs on the list) are all major marks against him.
_________________ "I want to see the whole picture--as nearly as I can. I don't want to put on the blinders of 'good and bad,' and limit my vision."-- In Dubious Battle
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 11:28 pm Posts: 14540 Location: Space City
For all of Clinton's achievements, I often remember him for ruining modern radio and I place a disproportionate amount of weight on that when judging him.
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dimejinky99 wrote:
I could destroy any ai chatbot you put in front of me. Easily.
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 6:02 am Posts: 9712 Location: Tristes Tropiques
Anders wrote:
Saddam had gotten away with genocide, invading another country, and led a terrible dictatorship with continous atrocities. Iraq is now a democracy, with 15 million more citizens than during Saddam’s reign. The whole WMD reasoning was wrong, but getting rid of the world’s worst dictator was right.
Lmfao.
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VinylGuy wrote:
its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 2:04 pm Posts: 37156 Location: September 2020 Poster of the Month
Mickey wrote:
Anders wrote:
Saddam had gotten away with genocide, invading another country, and led a terrible dictatorship with continous atrocities. Iraq is now a democracy, with 15 million more citizens than during Saddam’s reign. The whole WMD reasoning was wrong, but getting rid of the world’s worst dictator was right.
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 6:02 am Posts: 9712 Location: Tristes Tropiques
elliseamos wrote:
So far, Barry O. has ranked outside the top 2 only once (Burt).
I know with my own rankings it had more to do with the field than his own warring & pharmaceutical loving 8 years. He did get Bin Laden, he did lead us out of the financial collapse, and he did get the Affordable Care Act also known as Socialist Death Squad Plan passed.
What happened next?
_________________
VinylGuy wrote:
its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.
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