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 Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
PostPosted: Tue July 26, 2022 3:06 pm 
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Bi_3 wrote:
elliseamos wrote:
simple schoolboy wrote:
elliseamos wrote:
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
Yeah apparently the SS agents are saying he did not lay his hands on anyone or grab the steering wheel, but he was angry at them for not taking him to the insurrection.

Still waiting on these unnamed agents to step forward to counter the testimony.


Why need to respond to hearsay?

I mean, she gave sworn testimony. Isn't that considered more than hearsay? And why anonymously say it's not true, but do nothing thereafter?


Sworn testimony recounting hearsay

Sworn testimony corroborated by a DC police officer who was in the car.

When the people saying “X happened“ are willing to do so under oath and in the public eye, and the people going “no it uh…it didn’t“ are universally not prepared to do the same….the reason seems self-evident.

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 Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
PostPosted: Tue July 26, 2022 3:57 pm 
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McParadigm wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
elliseamos wrote:
simple schoolboy wrote:
elliseamos wrote:
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
Yeah apparently the SS agents are saying he did not lay his hands on anyone or grab the steering wheel, but he was angry at them for not taking him to the insurrection.

Still waiting on these unnamed agents to step forward to counter the testimony.


Why need to respond to hearsay?

I mean, she gave sworn testimony. Isn't that considered more than hearsay? And why anonymously say it's not true, but do nothing thereafter?


Sworn testimony recounting hearsay

Sworn testimony corroborated by a DC police officer who was in the car.

When the people saying “X happened“ are willing to do so under oath and in the public eye, and the people going “no it uh…it didn’t“ are universally not prepared to do the same….the reason seems self-evident.


yup, fear for their safety

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 Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
PostPosted: Tue July 26, 2022 4:00 pm 
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McParadigm wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
elliseamos wrote:
simple schoolboy wrote:
elliseamos wrote:
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
Yeah apparently the SS agents are saying he did not lay his hands on anyone or grab the steering wheel, but he was angry at them for not taking him to the insurrection.

Still waiting on these unnamed agents to step forward to counter the testimony.


Why need to respond to hearsay?

I mean, she gave sworn testimony. Isn't that considered more than hearsay? And why anonymously say it's not true, but do nothing thereafter?


Sworn testimony recounting hearsay

Sworn testimony corroborated by a DC police officer who was in the car.

When the people saying “X happened“ are willing to do so under oath and in the public eye, and the people going “no it uh…it didn’t“ are universally not prepared to do the same….the reason seems self-evident.

or they understand which sect of the elite is ascendant at the moment.

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 Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
PostPosted: Tue July 26, 2022 4:34 pm 
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Bi_3 wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
elliseamos wrote:
simple schoolboy wrote:
elliseamos wrote:
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
Yeah apparently the SS agents are saying he did not lay his hands on anyone or grab the steering wheel, but he was angry at them for not taking him to the insurrection.

Still waiting on these unnamed agents to step forward to counter the testimony.


Why need to respond to hearsay?

I mean, she gave sworn testimony. Isn't that considered more than hearsay? And why anonymously say it's not true, but do nothing thereafter?


Sworn testimony recounting hearsay

Sworn testimony corroborated by a DC police officer who was in the car.

When the people saying “X happened“ are willing to do so under oath and in the public eye, and the people going “no it uh…it didn’t“ are universally not prepared to do the same….the reason seems self-evident.


yup, fear for their safety

Fear for their safety in what specific way? Based on what precedence? You are saying that Secret Service agents are unable to protect the president against false testimony because they are too scared of having their names on the public record.

You’ve got two doors to choose from, here.

One of them says “An aide to Mark Meadows and a DC police officer in the car coordinatingly lied about Donald Trump under oath for uh reasons, and the people who jump in front of bullets for the President are too scared to speak up about it.”

The other says “Donald Trump got angry because he wanted something and didn’t get it.”

Have fun with whichever door you choose to go through, my man. Have all the fun in the world.

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 Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
PostPosted: Tue July 26, 2022 4:46 pm 
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I don't know what that is suppose to mean, but to my knowledge no one has testified that Trump didn't get angry and demand to be taken to the Capitol on 06.Jan. Hutchinson testified that she heard (i.e. hearsay) that Trump put hands on agents and tried to grab the steering wheel. This is what is in Ruddo's quote above. To my knowledge, and I could be wrong, no one has corroborated that. Here's what the DC cop said:

“The only description I received was that the president was upset and that he was adamant about going to the Capitol and that there was a heated discussion about that”

So was he even in the car with Trump? Sounds like not. I doubt a DC cop would be in the presidential limo. Motorcade maybe, to coordinate local response as the president moves, but not in the limo.

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 Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
PostPosted: Tue July 26, 2022 5:46 pm 
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Sorry, perhaps I should be more clear: the steering wheel lunge is a salacious detail. It gets attention because it is dramatic. But it is his determined and angry want to re-join the crowd at the capital that is the meat of the story. It is the part that matters.

The value of debunking the steering wheel reach claim was, at the time, that it would cast doubt on the rest of the testimony about what the president did and did not want to do. That ship sailed when the police offer testimony confirmed that he was in fact upset and wanted to go back. Which is why the Secret Service anon rebuke stopped being heavily covered when the police officer’s testimony became available: his testimony demonstrated the important part…that the president was angry about not being able to return.

When you lay out the sequence of events that day, it is the fact that he aggressively wanted to re-join the crowd that matters. The steering wheel doesn’t.

What I am trying to communicate to you here, though, is that “Secret Service agents, trained to lay down their life for their President, are so scared of (something) that they can’t testify or speak publicly about an accusation they know to be a lie” is a lot of bending and twisting to explain why the only people who cast any doubt on the story at all are also the only people unwilling to come forward…at all.

So going back to the question implied by elliseamos (why haven’t these people come forward?), the Occam‘s razor version is that with the motorcade argument and anger confirmed, the rest of the story is really of no consequence. Trying to turn their decision into some chilling example of ‘forced silence through intimidation’ is silly.

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 Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
PostPosted: Tue July 26, 2022 5:57 pm 
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The people who have come forward to testify and burry this guy are Republicans, too. So there's that.


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 Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
PostPosted: Tue July 26, 2022 6:16 pm 
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I don't care who said what under oath or not ... that lunge and grab definitely happened.

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 Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
PostPosted: Tue July 26, 2022 6:37 pm 
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B wrote:
I don't care who said what under oath or not ... that lunge and grab definitely happened.


Oh I'd put money on that it happened for sure! That's on brand for the Rep and Trump.


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 Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
PostPosted: Tue July 26, 2022 7:00 pm 
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McParadigm wrote:
Sorry, perhaps I should be more clear: the steering wheel lunge is a salacious detail. It gets attention because it is dramatic. But it is his determined and angry want to re-join the crowd at the capital that is the meat of the story. It is the part that matters.

The value of debunking the steering wheel reach claim was, at the time, that it would cast doubt on the rest of the testimony about what the president did and did not want to do. That ship sailed when the police offer testimony confirmed that he was in fact upset and wanted to go back. Which is why the Secret Service anon rebuke stopped being heavily covered when the police officer’s testimony became available: his testimony demonstrated the important part…that the president was angry about not being able to return.

When you lay out the sequence of events that day, it is the fact that he aggressively wanted to re-join the crowd that matters. The steering wheel doesn’t.

What I am trying to communicate to you here, though, is that “Secret Service agents, trained to lay down their life for their President, are so scared of (something) that they can’t testify or speak publicly about an accusation they know to be a lie” is a lot of bending and twisting to explain why the only people who cast any doubt on the story at all are also the only people unwilling to come forward…at all.

So going back to the question implied by elliseamos (why haven’t these people come forward?), the Occam‘s razor version is that with the motorcade argument and anger confirmed, the rest of the story is really of no consequence. Trying to turn their decision into some chilling example of ‘forced silence through intimidation’ is silly.



I don't follow this at all... no one was talking about that... if you look at the post on the top of this page, which was made by you, the quote pyramid was about the lunge and steering wheel grab (as if Trump could possibly lunge at something) and why no one has come forward to testify to explicitly debunk it versus just an off the record rumor. Now maybe it is part of some grand 4D Chess game played by MAGA sympathizers inside the Secret Service to discredit Hutchinson or maybe it's just that they don't talk about what happens in the presidential limo in order to maintain that essential-to-the-safety-of-the-country trust between them and the president like that whole "I can neither confirm nor deny" mantra. Probably the MAGA thing though.

Any-who, it's hearsay and I honestly don't think we are going to see anyone come forward to mention it again. It'll be like the pee tape, living rent-free in peoples heads.

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 Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
PostPosted: Tue July 26, 2022 11:00 pm 
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Even if you toss out the limo lunge and all the hearsay, Trump's inaction and own words - through his Tweets, videos - coupled w/ the text messages pleading him to do more, prove that at the very least he exercised very poor judgement on that day.


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 Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
PostPosted: Wed July 27, 2022 12:34 am 
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Coach wrote:
Even if you toss out the limo lunge and all the hearsay, Trump's inaction and own words - through his Tweets, videos - coupled w/ the text messages pleading him to do more, prove that at the very least he exercised very poor judgement on that day.

but he's not responsible for crowd control, remember? lol

it goes beyond poor judgement. people literally lost their lives b/c of his inaction. some of the cops there ended up killing themselves b/c of what happened. it's beyond defensible and anyone trying to defend this are either so far removed from reality they will never get back, or they are bored and on the internet.


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 Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
PostPosted: Wed July 27, 2022 3:03 am 
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PPS - "alternative" votes is probably a better term than "fake" votes. :)


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 Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
PostPosted: Wed July 27, 2022 3:37 am 
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Norris wrote:
PPS - "alternative" votes is probably a better term than "fake" votes. :)


Eh, they introduced legislation limiting the States ability to select an alternate slate of electoral so yeah, alternate seems to be operative term, unless the Dems are being entirely performative in this legislation.


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 Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
PostPosted: Wed July 27, 2022 3:41 am 
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lol you got me


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 Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
PostPosted: Wed July 27, 2022 12:04 pm 
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warehouse wrote:
Coach wrote:
Even if you toss out the limo lunge and all the hearsay, Trump's inaction and own words - through his Tweets, videos - coupled w/ the text messages pleading him to do more, prove that at the very least he exercised very poor judgement on that day.

but he's not responsible for crowd control, remember? lol

it goes beyond poor judgement. people literally lost their lives b/c of his inaction. some of the cops there ended up killing themselves b/c of what happened. it's beyond defensible and anyone trying to defend this are either so far removed from reality they will never get back, or they are bored and on the internet.



He's unfit to lead a bake sale much less a country. That's been clear since way before these hearings. He cannot be charged for inaction, and this has only hardened support amoungst the MAGAts (like maggot, not the homophobic slur), so what are we getting out of all this? It's starting to feel like a struggle session more than an investigation.

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 Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
PostPosted: Wed July 27, 2022 12:29 pm 
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I dunno, it sure seems like the Evangelists on the team are done with their useful idiot and want to reclaim the control he ushered in (both with new party-affiliation and stacked SCOTUS). Now they'll shift back to using institutions for their own benefit until demographics require them to enfranchise some other swath of the country. With an idol like Trump, maybe Barron will be ready by then.


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 Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
PostPosted: Wed July 27, 2022 12:45 pm 
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Bi_3 wrote:
? It's starting to feel like a struggle session more than an investigation.

Haha really? It's STARTING to? That's all this is, in it's entirety, from the very start. This is political theater.

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 Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
PostPosted: Wed July 27, 2022 12:49 pm 
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DOJ’s probing around the former VP’s staff now. Closing in.


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 Post subject: Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
PostPosted: Wed July 27, 2022 4:13 pm 
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Bi_3 wrote:
warehouse wrote:
Coach wrote:
Even if you toss out the limo lunge and all the hearsay, Trump's inaction and own words - through his Tweets, videos - coupled w/ the text messages pleading him to do more, prove that at the very least he exercised very poor judgement on that day.

but he's not responsible for crowd control, remember? lol

it goes beyond poor judgement. people literally lost their lives b/c of his inaction. some of the cops there ended up killing themselves b/c of what happened. it's beyond defensible and anyone trying to defend this are either so far removed from reality they will never get back, or they are bored and on the internet.



He's unfit to lead a bake sale much less a country. That's been clear since way before these hearings. He cannot be charged for inaction, and this has only hardened support amoungst the MAGAts (like maggot, not the homophobic slur), so what are we getting out of all this? It's starting to feel like a struggle session more than an investigation.

first of all, don't be so homophobic. but seriously, i'm sure the investigation isn't based on the wording in my post.


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