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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sat August 06, 2022 11:24 pm 
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B wrote:
Dev wrote:
What would you guys say is the bigger problem here, people who transitioned regreting it and committing suicide, or trans people winning all of the sports competitions?


Do we suspect that a person who transitioned from one gender to the other is so unable to imagine transitioning back that they'd commit suicide? Maybe in a world where people are so transphobic that they accuse them of just switching gender willy-nilly to gain advantage.

The solution isn't to block trans kids from transitioning. The solution to openly discuss gender and support people who are questioning their gender in the fullest way possible.

Should we lop off the dicks of 6 year olds who like to wear dresses? No, but that was really only a problem in one anecdotal story and Bi's nightmares in the first place.

My post was only meant to mock the dumb talking points of transphobes. I'm tired of anecdotal evidence btw.

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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sat August 06, 2022 11:56 pm 
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B wrote:
We made up the concept of gender, so we can unmake it.

Lol

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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun August 07, 2022 1:43 pm 
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Bammer wrote:
B wrote:
We made up the concept of gender, so we can unmake it.

Lol

No. Gender is a real physiological thing, it's not made up.

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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun August 07, 2022 2:18 pm 
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B wrote:
Do we suspect that a person who transitioned from one gender to the other is so unable to imagine transitioning back that they'd commit suicide? Maybe in a world where people are so transphobic that they accuse them of just switching gender willy-nilly to gain advantage.


Do you think surgical transition is reversible? Too broad (lol)... Do you think mastectomies are reversible? Even more basic, do you think a teenager can undo years of puberty blockers?

B wrote:
The solution isn't to block trans kids from transitioning. The solution to openly discuss gender and support people who are questioning their gender in the fullest way possible.


Why dont you try the search feature and find a post where anyone has stated something other than this. Really, this is basically what all of the folks you are implying are transphobic are saying, the issue is that you seem hell bent limiting what the concept of support entails by restricting it to affirmation based care instead of a more holistic mental health approach that includes discussions of gender identity.


B wrote:
Should we lop off the dicks of 6 year olds who like to wear dresses? No, but that was really only a problem in one anecdotal story and Bi's nightmares in the first place.


I openly admit my concern that in an effort to identify and support young people who should transition we may be inadvertently and irreversibly be damaging kids who should not.

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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun August 07, 2022 2:24 pm 
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If you're gonna draw a distinction between gender and sex in order to point to some real phenomena in the world, fine. But don't (a.) try to fool me into thinking that everyone hasn't always treated them as synonyms, or (b.) insist that everyone adopt your special alteration of language, or (c.) insist that it is the only valid language, and (d.)think of everyone who refuses as evil.

The fact that people do insist on these things expose them as tyrants at heart. Most are just moralistic sheep bahhhing along with whatever the tribe says. The rest are sociopaths and narcissists.

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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun August 07, 2022 2:34 pm 
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Bi_3 wrote:
B wrote:
Do we suspect that a person who transitioned from one gender to the other is so unable to imagine transitioning back that they'd commit suicide? Maybe in a world where people are so transphobic that they accuse them of just switching gender willy-nilly to gain advantage.


Do you think surgical transition is reversible? Too broad (lol)... Do you think mastectomies are reversible? Even more basic, do you think a teenager can undo years of puberty blockers?


Mastectomies, no, but plenty of women have small or nearly no breasts. Puberty blockers, yes. Or, at least the Mayo Clinic thinks so. Do I think kids under 18 can consent to these things without the consultation and permission of parents and trained medical professionals, no.

Bi_3 wrote:
B wrote:
The solution isn't to block trans kids from transitioning. The solution to openly discuss gender and support people who are questioning their gender in the fullest way possible.


Why dont you try the search feature and find a post where anyone has stated something other than this. Really, this is basically what all of the folks you are implying are transphobic are saying, the issue is that you seem hell bent limiting what the concept of support entails by restricting it to affirmation based care instead of a more holistic mental health approach that includes discussions of gender identity.


I support a whole range of care. What I don't support are broad and overreaching societal and legal restrictions on gender affirming care provided by families and doctors.

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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun August 07, 2022 3:12 pm 
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Bammer wrote:
Rob wrote:
That feels like a trick question. They are both things to discuss, along with the people who don’t transition and regret it.

Yep but I’m still waiting for someone to answer my question from a while back: In high school why did they allow girls to wrestle on the boys team but wouldn’t let boys play volleyball on the girls team?

there was already a boys volleyball team?


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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun August 07, 2022 3:14 pm 
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spike wrote:
Bammer wrote:
Rob wrote:
That feels like a trick question. They are both things to discuss, along with the people who don’t transition and regret it.

Yep but I’m still waiting for someone to answer my question from a while back: In high school why did they allow girls to wrestle on the boys team but wouldn’t let boys play volleyball on the girls team?

there was already a boys volleyball team?

Nope. Title IX my dude. Same number of sports teams for each. Boys got wrestling, girls got volleyball. Both had soccer, basketball, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun August 07, 2022 3:20 pm 
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Bammer wrote:
spike wrote:
Bammer wrote:
Rob wrote:
That feels like a trick question. They are both things to discuss, along with the people who don’t transition and regret it.

Yep but I’m still waiting for someone to answer my question from a while back: In high school why did they allow girls to wrestle on the boys team but wouldn’t let boys play volleyball on the girls team?

there was already a boys volleyball team?

Nope. Title IX my dude. Same number of sports teams for each. Boys got wrestling, girls got volleyball. Both had soccer, basketball, etc.

Yeah that doesn’t make sense. But as a little guy, weren’t you worried about getting stuffed by a taller girl?


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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun August 07, 2022 4:05 pm 
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spike wrote:
Bammer wrote:
spike wrote:
Bammer wrote:
Rob wrote:
That feels like a trick question. They are both things to discuss, along with the people who don’t transition and regret it.

Yep but I’m still waiting for someone to answer my question from a while back: In high school why did they allow girls to wrestle on the boys team but wouldn’t let boys play volleyball on the girls team?

there was already a boys volleyball team?

Nope. Title IX my dude. Same number of sports teams for each. Boys got wrestling, girls got volleyball. Both had soccer, basketball, etc.

Yeah that doesn’t make sense. But as a little guy, weren’t you worried about getting stuffed by a taller girl?

Lol if they let boys play on the girls volleyball team very quickly the team would be all boys.

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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun August 07, 2022 4:14 pm 
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Bammer wrote:
spike wrote:
Bammer wrote:
spike wrote:
Bammer wrote:
Rob wrote:
That feels like a trick question. They are both things to discuss, along with the people who don’t transition and regret it.

Yep but I’m still waiting for someone to answer my question from a while back: In high school why did they allow girls to wrestle on the boys team but wouldn’t let boys play volleyball on the girls team?

there was already a boys volleyball team?

Nope. Title IX my dude. Same number of sports teams for each. Boys got wrestling, girls got volleyball. Both had soccer, basketball, etc.

Yeah that doesn’t make sense. But as a little guy, weren’t you worried about getting stuffed by a taller girl?

Lol if they let boys play on the girls volleyball team very quickly the team would be all boys.

Who would be shirts and who would be skins?

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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun August 07, 2022 5:30 pm 
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B wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
B wrote:
Do we suspect that a person who transitioned from one gender to the other is so unable to imagine transitioning back that they'd commit suicide? Maybe in a world where people are so transphobic that they accuse them of just switching gender willy-nilly to gain advantage.


Do you think surgical transition is reversible? Too broad (lol)... Do you think mastectomies are reversible? Even more basic, do you think a teenager can undo years of puberty blockers?


Mastectomies, no, but plenty of women have small or nearly no breasts. Puberty blockers, yes. Or, at least the Mayo Clinic thinks so. Do I think kids under 18 can consent to these things without the consultation and permission of parents and trained medical professionals, no.


Well, the UK's NHS disagrees, but honestly I don't understand why folks like that who should know better insist on this being treated like a 'fact' as it fundamentally cannot be true in the sense that they are saying that it is ("a pause button"). Puberty, the process evolution spent a billion years developing that allows multicellular animals to go from core survival to sexual maturity, isn't just about tits and beards. Every aspect of the animal is impacted from the physiological to the psychological. And it's not just a couple hormones in the body that drive it. It's that nature and nurture mix, genes and environment, that pushes an organism's biochemistry to change at a specific time and over a specific time period in it's lifecycle. It's social as well. Chemical signals from others in social groups and classrooms influence the process in the individual. Diet, exercise, pollution (think BPA) all influence puberty. Inhibiting the chemicals that cause secondary sexual characteristics to emerge isn't 'blocking' or 'pausing' everything else going on in that body or in that mind, it isn't going to stop everyone else in the social sphere from changing around them, and most obviously after a significant period (lol) on blockers they aren't going to be able to travel backwards in time to experience the 'right' puberty should they determine with the blockers they had the wrong one. They can get off the drugs and they'll get pubes, but what would have been their body's natural developmental cycle, the adult organism they would have become, is now gone and replaced with something that in any other situation would have been called a medical disorder. And so we are clear, that's not to say the use of blockers won't result in the best psychological outcome in many, if not most of the cases in which they are used. There is evidence that it will. But it is not a pause button and it is not reversible.

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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun August 07, 2022 8:57 pm 
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B wrote:
Rob wrote:
Well, someone is going to have to come up with a good reason for why that swimmer should have been there. I didn’t touch this debate when it was happening because… so many bad takes. But it’s a canary in the coal mine. The “T” in lgbt present a unique set of challenges.


Because there are already all types of women. We're so worried about trans women competing in sports they've blocked Sydney McLaughlin from competing in events. If you ban trans women, how do you treat women born XY with internal testes who were raised as women? Or women with unusually high testosterone? We made up the concept of gender, so we can unmake it.

Maybe in the future utopia where trans women are so well accepted into society that we've welcomed them into all women's sports, and they've cornered all of the records, we could probably revisit our decision.


I think this arguments ignores what others see. Again, I don’t watch swimming and could give a F about the sport. But that woman transitioned at 21 (I think?), had already been competing against men… and then transitioned and beat the other women by a lot. And let me remind you the other competitors seemed to protest her win.

I don’t know the answer here, but this isn’t the gay movement. There’s a much thicker layer here revolving around gender, and it’s an issue that needs to be talked out.


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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun August 07, 2022 9:01 pm 
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Rob wrote:
B wrote:
Rob wrote:
Well, someone is going to have to come up with a good reason for why that swimmer should have been there. I didn’t touch this debate when it was happening because… so many bad takes. But it’s a canary in the coal mine. The “T” in lgbt present a unique set of challenges.


Because there are already all types of women. We're so worried about trans women competing in sports they've blocked Sydney McLaughlin from competing in events. If you ban trans women, how do you treat women born XY with internal testes who were raised as women? Or women with unusually high testosterone? We made up the concept of gender, so we can unmake it.

Maybe in the future utopia where trans women are so well accepted into society that we've welcomed them into all women's sports, and they've cornered all of the records, we could probably revisit our decision.


I think this arguments ignores what others see. Again, I don’t watch swimming and could give a F about the sport. But that woman transitioned at 21 (I think?), had already been competing against men… and then transitioned and beat the other women by a lot. And let me remind you the other competitors seemed to protest her win.

I don’t know the answer here, but this isn’t the gay movement. There’s a much thicker layer here revolving around gender, and it’s an issue that needs to be talked out.


Not true.

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its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.


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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun August 07, 2022 9:02 pm 
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Again, with no interest in or bearing on the larger trans inclusion debate.

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VinylGuy wrote:
its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.


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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun August 07, 2022 9:05 pm 
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I know she’s not great and dominate in general, but that race that put her on the news saw her win by a lot, unless my memory is failing (might be). And hey, maybe you guys are right, and this a transition period in general, and it’ll all work out. Still don’t understand why these questions would surprise anyone, and I don’t think they’re dumb questions.


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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun August 07, 2022 9:09 pm 
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Rob wrote:
I know she’s not great and dominate in general, but that race that put her on the news saw her win by a lot, unless my memory is failing (might be). And hey, maybe you guys are right, and this a transition period in general, and it’ll all work out. Still don’t understand why these questions would surprise anyone, and I don’t think they’re dumb questions.


I don't know which race "put her in the news," but I imagine it's the NCAA championship meet (the one that Ron DeSantis got all mad about). She only won one NCAA championship race (500 Free), where she won by less than a second, and was almost ten seconds off the NCAA record. She lost a number of other races at that meet. This is all google-able information. If you're under the impression that she "dominated women's sports," it's just not true.

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VinylGuy wrote:
its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.


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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun August 07, 2022 9:39 pm 
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Mickey wrote:
Rob wrote:
I know she’s not great and dominate in general, but that race that put her on the news saw her win by a lot, unless my memory is failing (might be). And hey, maybe you guys are right, and this a transition period in general, and it’ll all work out. Still don’t understand why these questions would surprise anyone, and I don’t think they’re dumb questions.


I don't know which race "put her in the news," but I imagine it's the NCAA championship meet (the one that Ron DeSantis got all mad about). She only won one NCAA championship race (500 Free), where she won by less than a second, and was almost ten seconds off the NCAA record. She lost a number of other races at that meet. This is all google-able information. If you're under the impression that she "dominated women's sports," it's just not true.


It's this one:

https://www.phillyvoice.com/lia-thomas- ... pionships/

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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun August 07, 2022 9:50 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun August 07, 2022 9:58 pm 
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Bi_3 wrote:
Mickey wrote:
Rob wrote:
I know she’s not great and dominate in general, but that race that put her on the news saw her win by a lot, unless my memory is failing (might be). And hey, maybe you guys are right, and this a transition period in general, and it’ll all work out. Still don’t understand why these questions would surprise anyone, and I don’t think they’re dumb questions.


I don't know which race "put her in the news," but I imagine it's the NCAA championship meet (the one that Ron DeSantis got all mad about). She only won one NCAA championship race (500 Free), where she won by less than a second, and was almost ten seconds off the NCAA record. She lost a number of other races at that meet. This is all google-able information. If you're under the impression that she "dominated women's sports," it's just not true.


It's this one:

https://www.phillyvoice.com/lia-thomas- ... pionships/


Once again I am imploring this board to realize that the "Ivy League Championships" are not worth caring about, not even for a second.

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VinylGuy wrote:
its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.


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