The board's server will undergo upgrade maintenance tonight, Nov 5, 2014, beginning approximately around 10 PM ET. Prepare for some possible down time during this process.
FAQ    Search

Board index » Word on the Street » News & Debate




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2502 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44 ... 126  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Fri July 02, 2021 7:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Future Drummer
 Profile

Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 2:21 am
Posts: 2870
McParadigm wrote:
surfndestroy wrote:
Honest questions, as I just can't figure this out and I want to understand. A WNBA player has come out as non-binary and trans. Can one be non-binary and trans? Isn't being trans selecting a binary status?

Wikipedia wrote:
Non-binary (also spelled nonbinary) or genderqueer is an umbrella term for gender identities that are neither male nor female‍—‌identities that are outside the gender binary.[1][2] Non-binary identities fall under the transgender umbrella, since non-binary people typically identify with a gender that is different from their assigned sex,[2] though some non-binary individuals do not consider themselves transgender.

Non-binary people may identify as having two or more genders (being bigender or trigender);[5][6] having no gender (agender, nongendered, genderless, genderfree); moving between genders or having a fluctuating gender identity (genderfluid)


Quote:
What is a trans male doing playing in a league for women?

Enjoying broad support from association management, fans, and fellow players, apparently.

I fully support her as well. More power to anyone living a life where they are happy.

Just trying to understand her use of terminology. Based on what you've posted, it doesn't seem at all consistent to identify as trans and non-binary. Isn't that a little like coming out as both bi-sexual and straight?

_________________
Think I’m going to try being kind to everyone a chance.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Fri July 02, 2021 7:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Poster of the Year
 Profile

Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 37156
Location: September 2020 Poster of the Month
it's more like coming out as both bisexual and not straight


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun July 04, 2021 2:51 am 
Offline
User avatar
mXn
 Profile

Joined: Thu January 24, 2013 4:32 am
Posts: 20851
Location: Surrounded by Wokes. Please send help.
surfndestroy wrote:
Honest questions, as I just can't figure this out and I want to understand. A WNBA player has come out as non-binary and trans. Can one be non-binary and trans? Isn't being trans selecting a binary status?

What is a trans male doing playing in a league for women?

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/entertainment/tv/meet-wnba-s-first-openly-non-binary-transgender-athlete-layshia-clarendon/ar-AALAt5c?ocid=msedgntp

Bammer wrote:
I am so confused...

“Clarendon — an eight-year veteran in the WNBA — announced they were trans in 2020. In an Instagram post, Clarendon wrote he was trans and non-binary, meaning she does not identify with the gender assigned to her at birth, but does not consider himself exclusively male or female. Clarendon uses the pronouns she/her/they/them/he/him.”

_________________
(she/him/theirs)


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Thu July 15, 2021 3:00 am 
Offline
User avatar
Looks Like a Cat
 Profile

Joined: Wed April 20, 2016 7:11 pm
Posts: 14224
Interesting data from Tavistock (mentioned on previous pages):

Image


Quite the change

_________________
"The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sat July 17, 2021 9:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Looks Like a Cat
 Profile

Joined: Wed April 20, 2016 7:11 pm
Posts: 14224
Similar data from the US:

Image

_________________
"The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun August 08, 2021 12:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Looks Like a Cat
 Profile

Joined: Wed April 20, 2016 7:11 pm
Posts: 14224
Saw this comment on Reddit with regards to Caster Semenya (intersex not trans, but same rules apply) and thought it captured my current feelings pretty well:



Quote:
That's because women's sport was introduced in order to protect women's participation in sport - if we didn't have that, there would be no (cis) elite female runners. It's a protected category, like youth tournaments or the Paralympics.

Now the million dollar question is - what exactly makes women need protection in sports?

First obviously we have to ask, what is a woman? By the current definition, you're a woman if you identify as (or sometimes: are legally recognized as) a woman. But obviously there's absolutely no connection between identification/legal recognition and sports performance. There's no difference in performance between men and pre-op or non-op trans women (not every trans person wants to do surgery or hormones and transness isn't inherently tied to that). For example Caitlyn Jenner, before transitioning was perfectly capable of competing with men.

However, there undeniably is something that makes cis women be unable to compete with men in most sports - this isn't just a hypothetical, if you look at women's world records (which for most sports are the results of decades of competition), they usually aren't enough to even qualify for the men's competition. For example Katie Ledecky, who's an absolute once-in-a-generation talent and world record holder, wouldn't even make men's qualifications.

The reasons for that are complex and not all that very well understood. There are studies that show evidence that testosterone is major factor (which makes sense as testosterone can also be used as a PED), but it's far from the only - for example there's evidence that the impact for testosterone is a lot lower/less clear in people who have XX chromosomes than in people who have XY chromosomes. (Then again there are also people who might have XY chromosomes but are insensitive to testosterone, they obviously don't have an advantage either).

Intersex women like Caster Semenya make up a very small percentage of the human population but they are highly overrepresented in certain sports (at the 2016, there was one runner's podium where not a single woman who had received a medal had XX chromosomes, they also all had testosterone levels was above what is common in women - XY women are 140 times more common among elite female athletes than in the general population, and they're even more overrepresented on the podium. Women with XX chromosomes - aka around 50% of the population - don't have a chance to compete.

So the Federation that regulates running established rules that if you want to compete in the women's competition, but have XY chromosomes and aren't testosterone insensitive, you have to have testosterone levels in the what is considered the "normal female range" (in fact the value they chose, 5 nmol/l would be considered an abnormally high value among women that no healthy cis woman - as in, without conditions such as PCOS - would reach without supplements, the normal range for cis women is between 0.3-2.4 nmol/l). These can be reached for example by taking birth control pills, but also by surgery. The reason why most of the intersex athletes are from Third World countries is that in the first world, these kind of surgeries used to be absolutely standard procedure for intersex children, so that they wouldn't even reach these testosterone levels. Many First World countries now have introduced a gender category of "X" or "Diverse" that can be used for intersex children so they won't receive this surgery.

It's a complicated topic that's probably always unfair to someone but it's too simple to just make the Michael Phelps comparison. Because if a female Michael Phelps arrived, nobody would ban her from competition for having longer arms. She'd be allowed to compete - and she probably still wouldn't be able to compete against regular male swimmers, because the gender differences is just so big.

That's why a women's competition exists - it's to give women a chance to showcase their exceptional athletic skills without being reduced to differences due to sex. There's absolutely no point to women's sport if there's no protection from specific sex-based advantages.

So I think a comparison with for example youth tournaments makes more sense - an adult Michael Phelps was not allowed to compete in U16 youth tournaments - not because of his arms or bodyshape but because he was an adult and the point of youth tournaments is to protect kids from having to compete with adults who are older and therefore more developed than them.

Edit: thank you for the gold! This has made me look up the actual times on Wikipedia. Michael Phelps is currently world record holder in the 400m medley with a time of 4:03.84 at the 2008 Beijing Olympics. He was 0:02.32 faster than silver medalist Laszlo Cseh. If we put that advantage on the current women's record (4:26.36 by Katinka Hosszu), even if we use the absolute and not a relative increase, aka make her as much faster as Michael Phelps was compared to the competition at the 2008 Olympics, she'd still be significantly away from the Olympic Selection Time of 4:21.46 that you need to even get to the male event . Obviously this is hypothetical, but according to these numbers a female Michael Phelps, while obliterating the women's records, would still be not even close to even qualifying in the male event.

_________________
"The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sun September 05, 2021 4:04 am 
Offline
Misplaced My Sponge
 Profile

Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 3:41 am
Posts: 5585
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/02/person-charged-with-indecent-exposure-at-la-spa-after-viral-instagram-video?__twitter_impression=true


Did the accused not even bother to self ID as trans? Seems like a pretty airtight defense. Two months seems like a ridiculous delay.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Fri December 03, 2021 10:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Looks Like a Cat
 Profile

Joined: Wed April 20, 2016 7:11 pm
Posts: 14224
Hmmm... good... i guess? Maybe? I don't know. At my office there are four multi-stall bathrooms per floor: one womens, one mens, two gender neutral. Everyone can choose what they are comfortable with. That seems like a better solution than open season, but I don’t regularly interact any under-20 trans people so maybe I'm too old-fashioned to understand.


_________________
"The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sat December 04, 2021 2:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar
mXn
 Profile

Joined: Thu January 24, 2013 4:32 am
Posts: 20851
Location: Surrounded by Wokes. Please send help.
Bi_3 wrote:
Hmmm... good... i guess? Maybe? I don't know. At my office there are four multi-stall bathrooms per floor: one womens, one mens, two gender neutral. Everyone can choose what they are comfortable with. That seems like a better solution than open season, but I don’t regularly interact any under-20 trans people so maybe I'm too old-fashioned to understand.


I just find it odd the lengths here to serve a fraction of a percent of the population.

_________________
(she/him/theirs)


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sat December 04, 2021 3:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Mind Your Tanners
 Profile

Joined: Thu January 10, 2013 2:19 am
Posts: 8892
Location: SOUTH PORTLAND
Bammer wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
Hmmm... good... i guess? Maybe? I don't know. At my office there are four multi-stall bathrooms per floor: one womens, one mens, two gender neutral. Everyone can choose what they are comfortable with. That seems like a better solution than open season, but I don’t regularly interact any under-20 trans people so maybe I'm too old-fashioned to understand.


I just find it odd the lengths here to serve a fraction of a percent of the population.

Like catering to rich people, amirite?!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sat December 04, 2021 3:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar
mXn
 Profile

Joined: Thu January 24, 2013 4:32 am
Posts: 20851
Location: Surrounded by Wokes. Please send help.
elliseamos wrote:
Bammer wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
Hmmm... good... i guess? Maybe? I don't know. At my office there are four multi-stall bathrooms per floor: one womens, one mens, two gender neutral. Everyone can choose what they are comfortable with. That seems like a better solution than open season, but I don’t regularly interact any under-20 trans people so maybe I'm too old-fashioned to understand.


I just find it odd the lengths here to serve a fraction of a percent of the population.

Like catering to rich people, amirite?!

Gonna need some examples

_________________
(she/him/theirs)


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sat December 04, 2021 4:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Mind Your Tanners
 Profile

Joined: Thu January 10, 2013 2:19 am
Posts: 8892
Location: SOUTH PORTLAND
Bammer wrote:
elliseamos wrote:
Bammer wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
Hmmm... good... i guess? Maybe? I don't know. At my office there are four multi-stall bathrooms per floor: one womens, one mens, two gender neutral. Everyone can choose what they are comfortable with. That seems like a better solution than open season, but I don’t regularly interact any under-20 trans people so maybe I'm too old-fashioned to understand.


I just find it odd the lengths here to serve a fraction of a percent of the population.

Like catering to rich people, amirite?!

Gonna need some examples
massive tax cuts come to mind first.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Sat December 04, 2021 4:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Looks Like a Cat
 Profile

Joined: Wed April 20, 2016 7:11 pm
Posts: 14224
elliseamos wrote:
Bammer wrote:
elliseamos wrote:
Bammer wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
Hmmm... good... i guess? Maybe? I don't know. At my office there are four multi-stall bathrooms per floor: one womens, one mens, two gender neutral. Everyone can choose what they are comfortable with. That seems like a better solution than open season, but I don’t regularly interact any under-20 trans people so maybe I'm too old-fashioned to understand.


I just find it odd the lengths here to serve a fraction of a percent of the population.

Like catering to rich people, amirite?!

Gonna need some examples
massive tax cuts come to mind first.


SALT on the wound there, friendo.

_________________
"The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Tue December 14, 2021 12:26 am 
Offline
User avatar
Looks Like a Cat
 Profile

Joined: Wed April 20, 2016 7:11 pm
Posts: 14224
https://www.outkick.com/outkick-exclusive-second-female-penn-swimmer-steps-forward/

Trans swimmer is dominant after transitioning in college:


Quote:

Thomas’ current best times racing for the women’s team:

200 free: 1:41.93

500 free: 4:34:06

1650 free: 15:59.71

Thomas’ best times racing as a male the first three years at Penn:

200 Free … 1:39.31

500 Free … 4:18.72

1,650 Free … 14:54.76

NCAA women’s swimming records:

200 free: 1:39:10 (Missy Franklin)

500 free: 4:24:06 (Katie Ledecky)

1650 free: 15:03:31 (Katie Ledecky)



Rules are rules, she can and should be able to compete, but this is gonna get problematic over the next few years

_________________
"The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Tue December 14, 2021 6:15 am 
Offline
User avatar
mXn
 Profile

Joined: Thu January 24, 2013 4:32 am
Posts: 20851
Location: Surrounded by Wokes. Please send help.
RIP women’s sports

_________________
(she/him/theirs)


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Fri December 17, 2021 2:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar
I've been POOSSTTIiiEEnngeeaahh
 Profile

Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 5:53 pm
Posts: 12081
I would think if you could compete at the highest level going down to a lower level and dominating would be unfulfilling but everyone’s different I guess.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Fri December 17, 2021 2:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Posting (live)
 Profile

Joined: Wed February 06, 2013 2:47 am
Posts: 17516
Location: Scooby Doo
Utterly ridiculous.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Wed February 23, 2022 9:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Troglodyte
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Wed December 19, 2012 9:53 pm
Posts: 22498
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA
Image

_________________
Everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here, now, thank you. How are you?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Wed February 23, 2022 10:05 pm 
Offline
Misplaced My Sponge
 Profile

Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 3:41 am
Posts: 5585
B wrote:
Image


Great, the intactivists are going to jump all over this.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Transgender Rights
PostPosted: Thu February 24, 2022 2:07 am 
Offline
User avatar
TIER 1 Essential Critical Infrastructure Worker
 Profile

Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 9:08 pm
Posts: 4735
Location: 5th floor, Bay 7, position 5740
Bammer wrote:
RIP women’s sports


I completely get that argument when it comes to sports.
Texas state leadership are ass hats; to ban trans athletes from competing is one thing but to investigate trans children’s parents for child abuse is nutso.


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2502 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44 ... 126  Next

Board index » Word on the Street » News & Debate


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 48 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
It is currently Sat April 20, 2024 2:52 am