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Joined: Tue September 24, 2013 5:56 pm Posts: 46411 Location: In the oatmeal aisle wearing a Shellac shirt
Interesting piece on Elbridge Colby, an emerging leader on conservative thinking re: foreign policy. This also would’ve fit in the deglobalization thread.
Guys, I am not a moderator! I swear to God! Why does everyone think I'm a moderator?
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 2:48 pm Posts: 46804
MTG tweeted about the guy busted for leaking classified documents:
“Jake Teixeira is white, male, christian, and antiwar. That makes him an enemy to the Biden regime. And he told the truth about troops being on the ground in Ukraine and a lot more,” Greene, a member of the Homeland Security Committee, said on Twitter. "Ask yourself who is the real enemy?”
Since when was being antiwar a Republican thing?
_________________ Clouuuuds Rolll byyy...BANG BANG BANG BANG
MTG tweeted about the guy busted for leaking classified documents:
“Jake Teixeira is white, male, christian, and antiwar. That makes him an enemy to the Biden regime. And he told the truth about troops being on the ground in Ukraine and a lot more,” Greene, a member of the Homeland Security Committee, said on Twitter. "Ask yourself who is the real enemy?”
Since when was being antiwar a Republican thing?
She is the highest of levels of karens and the stupid people of Georgia will re-elect her again
_________________ Did the Mother Fucker pay extra to yell?
MTG tweeted about the guy busted for leaking classified documents:
“Jake Teixeira is white, male, christian, and antiwar. That makes him an enemy to the Biden regime. And he told the truth about troops being on the ground in Ukraine and a lot more,” Greene, a member of the Homeland Security Committee, said on Twitter. "Ask yourself who is the real enemy?”
Since when was being antiwar a Republican thing?
She is the highest of levels of karens and the stupid people of Georgia will re-elect her again
I can't believe I keep getting shocked by this party, but how in the world can they defend this type of behavior? It's a Kafkaesque world that wing of the party has created.
Joined: Tue September 24, 2013 5:56 pm Posts: 46411 Location: In the oatmeal aisle wearing a Shellac shirt
These are bad takes. They’re neither anti-war nor pro-Putin. The foreign policy shift by the GOP is one of a marked shift from hawkish to isolationist, e.g. it’s longer in the US’s best interest to militarily intervene in every global conflict, but rather to freeze the dying empires out and let economic isolation take care of the rest.
See the link I posted just above Ruddo on this page.
These are bad takes. They’re neither anti-war nor pro-Putin. The foreign policy shift by the GOP is one of a marked shift from hawkish to isolationist, e.g. it’s longer in the US’s best interest to militarily intervene in every global conflict, but rather to freeze the dying empires out and let economic isolation take care of the rest.
See the link I posted just above Ruddo on this page.
I think it’s also fair to note that this is a subset of the party. It’s mostly the MAGA wing that frames this conflict in purely isolationist terms. 40% of Republicans still supported sending military aid to Ukraine as late as March, and quite a lot of Republican legislators still openly do as well (Although the 60% support for it among independents probably helps to encourage that).
And of course, the hawkishness tends to return as soon as you bring up China and Taiwan.
Joined: Tue September 24, 2013 5:56 pm Posts: 46411 Location: In the oatmeal aisle wearing a Shellac shirt
McParadigm wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
These are bad takes. They’re neither anti-war nor pro-Putin. The foreign policy shift by the GOP is one of a marked shift from hawkish to isolationist, e.g. it’s longer in the US’s best interest to militarily intervene in every global conflict, but rather to freeze the dying empires out and let economic isolation take care of the rest.
See the link I posted just above Ruddo on this page.
I think it’s also fair to note that this is a subset of the party. It’s mostly the MAGA wing that frames this conflict in purely isolationist terms. 40% of Republicans still supported sending military aid to Ukraine as late as March, and quite a lot of Republican legislators still openly do as well (Although the 60% support for it among independents probably helps to encourage that).
And of course, the hawkishness tends to return as soon as you bring up China and Taiwan.
This is not backed by my experiences talking at length with moderate conservatives in/around my workplace, but I'll grant they're not necessarily a barometer for the entire party.
The wealthy conservative types I know are all for economic intervention / supporting Ukraine/Taiwan efforts through sanctions, materials, etc -- to the extent that it secures a net benefit for the U.S. They're also generally skeptical we have to do much of anything in the long run to beat China or Russia, generally viewing these countries as being perfectly capable of total failure if left to their own devices (and purposefully left out of the post-globalization re-ordering of the economy).
In neither case do they support sending boots on the ground, nor directly engaging via other military means. Sanctions, proxy wars, and only if it presents a benefit to the U.S. nationalist agenda.
Granted these are educated, wealthy conservatives, with state leadership generally parroting relatively moderate talking points on these issues.
Also worth noting these people generally absolve themselves of any part of the culture wars, and view a newfangled U.S.-first model of economic growth as the driving issue when they go to the ballot box. These are people who voted for Obama 1, but not Obama 2; Trump 1, but not Trump 2; and split the ticket for Biden / GOP state elections.
Maybe I'm just in a weird moderately conservative bubble; it's entirely possible.
These are bad takes. They’re neither anti-war nor pro-Putin. The foreign policy shift by the GOP is one of a marked shift from hawkish to isolationist, e.g. it’s longer in the US’s best interest to militarily intervene in every global conflict, but rather to freeze the dying empires out and let economic isolation take care of the rest.
See the link I posted just above Ruddo on this page.
I think it’s also fair to note that this is a subset of the party. It’s mostly the MAGA wing that frames this conflict in purely isolationist terms. 40% of Republicans still supported sending military aid to Ukraine as late as March, and quite a lot of Republican legislators still openly do as well (Although the 60% support for it among independents probably helps to encourage that).
And of course, the hawkishness tends to return as soon as you bring up China and Taiwan.
I think you could successfully argue that the impact on the western world of losing Taiwan to China is far greater than losing Ukraine to Russia and while Ukraine has the entire EU backing it, no one else will defend Taiwan's sovereignty.
_________________ "The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."
An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 5:13 pm Posts: 39543 Location: 6000 feet beyond man and time.
tragabigzanda wrote:
Interesting piece on Elbridge Colby, an emerging leader on conservative thinking re: foreign policy. This also would’ve fit in the deglobalization thread.
I hope you're right about deglobalization (de-imperialization) being the emerging US doctrine, but I think the decrepit military-industrial complex and their lackeys in Washington will fight tooth and nail to keep us involved in foreign wars for the next few decades.
An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 5:13 pm Posts: 39543 Location: 6000 feet beyond man and time.
Bi_3 wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
These are bad takes. They’re neither anti-war nor pro-Putin. The foreign policy shift by the GOP is one of a marked shift from hawkish to isolationist, e.g. it’s longer in the US’s best interest to militarily intervene in every global conflict, but rather to freeze the dying empires out and let economic isolation take care of the rest.
See the link I posted just above Ruddo on this page.
I think it’s also fair to note that this is a subset of the party. It’s mostly the MAGA wing that frames this conflict in purely isolationist terms. 40% of Republicans still supported sending military aid to Ukraine as late as March, and quite a lot of Republican legislators still openly do as well (Although the 60% support for it among independents probably helps to encourage that).
And of course, the hawkishness tends to return as soon as you bring up China and Taiwan.
I think you could successfully argue that the impact on the western world of losing Taiwan to China is far greater than losing Ukraine to Russia and while Ukraine has the entire EU backing it, no one else will defend Taiwan's sovereignty.
The sooner we can bring back chip manufacturing to the US, the sooner we don't have to care about that either. I do feel bad for Taiwan, but to be honest I don't think China has the ability to invade it. It's mostly sabre rattling.
Joined: Tue September 24, 2013 5:56 pm Posts: 46411 Location: In the oatmeal aisle wearing a Shellac shirt
BurtReynolds wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
These are bad takes. They’re neither anti-war nor pro-Putin. The foreign policy shift by the GOP is one of a marked shift from hawkish to isolationist, e.g. it’s longer in the US’s best interest to militarily intervene in every global conflict, but rather to freeze the dying empires out and let economic isolation take care of the rest.
See the link I posted just above Ruddo on this page.
I think it’s also fair to note that this is a subset of the party. It’s mostly the MAGA wing that frames this conflict in purely isolationist terms. 40% of Republicans still supported sending military aid to Ukraine as late as March, and quite a lot of Republican legislators still openly do as well (Although the 60% support for it among independents probably helps to encourage that).
And of course, the hawkishness tends to return as soon as you bring up China and Taiwan.
I think you could successfully argue that the impact on the western world of losing Taiwan to China is far greater than losing Ukraine to Russia and while Ukraine has the entire EU backing it, no one else will defend Taiwan's sovereignty.
The sooner we can bring back chip manufacturing to the US, the sooner we don't have to care about that either. I do feel bad for Taiwan, but to be honest I don't think China has the ability to invade it. It's mostly sabre rattling.
i do think the Taiwan situation will serve as the greater litmus test for how these things will play out moving forward: Will Japan + the US try to posture their muscle in hopes of scaring China off, or will they just cut their losses and maintain a tighter focus on the rest of the Asian island countries?
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