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 Post subject: Re: The Protest Thread
PostPosted: Tue June 30, 2020 8:48 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The Protest Thread
PostPosted: Tue June 30, 2020 8:52 pm 
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Yeah but they were wearing a mask.


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 Post subject: Re: The Protest Thread
PostPosted: Tue June 30, 2020 8:59 pm 
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I would say that, given the number of protests where nothing of the sort happened, shooting into a moving car at a protest is absolutely "fringe," but I would also probably refrain from taking a stance on what's happening here until the shooter is arrested, given what happened with the last big protest-related shooting in Oakland.

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 Post subject: Re: The Protest Thread
PostPosted: Tue June 30, 2020 9:11 pm 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
Lol everything about this.



Don't think he's black tho.

THAT FAILED ATTEMPT AT A TACKLE AT 0:18 IS ONE OF THE FUNNIEST THINGS I'VE SEEN IN A WHILE.

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 Post subject: Re: The Protest Thread
PostPosted: Tue June 30, 2020 9:15 pm 
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Mickey wrote:
I would say that, given the number of protests where nothing of the sort happened, shooting into a moving car at a protest is absolutely "fringe," but I would also probably refrain from taking a stance on what's happening here until the shooter is arrested, given what happened with the last big protest-related shooting in Oakland.


Maybe people aren't shooting into cars yet but the whole douchebags block intersection thing is pretty much universal at this point. Why would anyone even slow down now after seeing this video?


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 Post subject: Re: The Protest Thread
PostPosted: Tue June 30, 2020 9:19 pm 
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verb_to_trust wrote:
Mickey wrote:
I would say that, given the number of protests where nothing of the sort happened, shooting into a moving car at a protest is absolutely "fringe," but I would also probably refrain from taking a stance on what's happening here until the shooter is arrested, given what happened with the last big protest-related shooting in Oakland.


Maybe people aren't shooting into cars yet but the whole douchebags block intersection thing is pretty much universal at this point. Why would anyone even slow down now after seeing this video?


I can think of at least two reasons but that would be arguing a different point.

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 Post subject: Re: The Protest Thread
PostPosted: Tue June 30, 2020 9:57 pm 
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This happened just across the river:

https://www.fredericksburg.com/watch-now-911-call-during-protest-reverberates-in-fredericksburg/article_f3b9488f-e726-56ff-95ea-cb1373c1cc4e.html


Protestors attacking uninvolved civilian cars is not an isolated incident.

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 Post subject: Re: The Protest Thread
PostPosted: Tue June 30, 2020 10:12 pm 
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Bi_3 wrote:
This happened just across the river:

https://www.fredericksburg.com/watch-now-911-call-during-protest-reverberates-in-fredericksburg/article_f3b9488f-e726-56ff-95ea-cb1373c1cc4e.html


Protestors attacking uninvolved civilian cars is not an isolated incident.


The speed with which you've moved these goalposts is truly impressive. As the article you posted claims:

Quote:
Ryan Vera, a representative of the multiple groups that have been protesting police brutality in downtown streets since May 31, said during the event described in the 911 call, a 13-year-old boy who was not part of the protesting group did jump on her car. Vera said the group immediately pulled the boy away.

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 Post subject: Re: The Protest Thread
PostPosted: Tue June 30, 2020 10:42 pm 
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Mickey wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
This happened just across the river:

https://www.fredericksburg.com/watch-now-911-call-during-protest-reverberates-in-fredericksburg/article_f3b9488f-e726-56ff-95ea-cb1373c1cc4e.html


Protestors attacking uninvolved civilian cars is not an isolated incident.


The speed with which you've moved these goalposts is truly impressive. As the article you posted claims:

Quote:
Ryan Vera, a representative of the multiple groups that have been protesting police brutality in downtown streets since May 31, said during the event described in the 911 call, a 13-year-old boy who was not part of the protesting group did jump on her car. Vera said the group immediately pulled the boy away.


What do you think I said in the above post that your quote contradicts and why do you assume that protestor is telling the truth?

https://potomaclocal.com/2020/06/01/protesters-on-falmouth-bridge-target-family-with-child-cs-gas-deployed/

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 Post subject: Re: The Protest Thread
PostPosted: Tue June 30, 2020 10:52 pm 
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The plural of anecdote is not evidence in a country where there have been easily a few thousand different protests (conservative estimate) since Floyd was murdered, and I would certainly say that "someone got on my car" is of a different kind than "someone shot into my car," so to lump them into the same group is spurious and moving the goalposts from your original (implied) claim--that the Provo video contradicts claims that violence at these protests is a fringe phenomenon. What happened in Provo is obviously despicable (though, again, until he's arrested it's anyone's guess as to whether he was a left-wing protestor or a right-wing boogaloo-style agitator). What looks to have happened in Fredericksburg is bad! Violence against civilians at this heterogeneous set of nationwide protests which have been going on for almost a month now is still a rare occurrence.

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 Post subject: Re: The Protest Thread
PostPosted: Tue June 30, 2020 11:07 pm 
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Protestors are the Wurst

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 Post subject: Re: The Protest Thread
PostPosted: Tue June 30, 2020 11:54 pm 
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Something isn't rare because something else is more common.

And the "peaceful" protestors protect the violent ones, thus "all protestors are bastards."

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 Post subject: Re: The Protest Thread
PostPosted: Tue June 30, 2020 11:56 pm 
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Motherfuckers just need to get out of the streets. Nobody should be expecting cars to stop now.


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 Post subject: Re: The Protest Thread
PostPosted: Tue June 30, 2020 11:58 pm 
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Mickey wrote:
The plural of anecdote is not evidence in a country where there have been easily a few thousand different protests (conservative estimate) since Floyd was murdered, and I would certainly say that "someone got on my car" is of a different kind than "someone shot into my car," so to lump them into the same group is spurious and moving the goalposts from your original (implied) claim--that the Provo video contradicts claims that violence at these protests is a fringe phenomenon. What happened in Provo is obviously despicable (though, again, until he's arrested it's anyone's guess as to whether he was a left-wing protestor or a right-wing boogaloo-style agitator). What looks to have happened in Fredericksburg is bad! Violence against civilians at this heterogeneous set of nationwide protests which have been going on for almost a month now is still a rare occurrence.


Ironically this argument is framed almost exactly like someone dismissing claims about the frequency of police killing unarmed black men.


Shootings by protestors are rare (if you dont count the four at CHAZ, the one BBQ guy in Louisville, the one this past weekend in Louisville, Indy, the two in Vegas, etc., etc.) but attacking innocent bystanders is not. Twitter is awash in videos that are a bit too graphic to post here but can easily be located if that's your thing.

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 Post subject: Re: The Protest Thread
PostPosted: Wed July 01, 2020 12:13 am 
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Bi_3 wrote:
Mickey wrote:
The plural of anecdote is not evidence in a country where there have been easily a few thousand different protests (conservative estimate) since Floyd was murdered, and I would certainly say that "someone got on my car" is of a different kind than "someone shot into my car," so to lump them into the same group is spurious and moving the goalposts from your original (implied) claim--that the Provo video contradicts claims that violence at these protests is a fringe phenomenon. What happened in Provo is obviously despicable (though, again, until he's arrested it's anyone's guess as to whether he was a left-wing protestor or a right-wing boogaloo-style agitator). What looks to have happened in Fredericksburg is bad! Violence against civilians at this heterogeneous set of nationwide protests which have been going on for almost a month now is still a rare occurrence.


Ironically this argument is framed almost exactly like someone dismissing claims about the frequency of police killing unarmed black men.


It's not, because there are rigorous, data-driven analyses that document the heightened frequency of police violence against black Americans relative to population sample (there's a whole thread about it!), whereas this is dismissing a few videos from Twitter against an unknown but certainly large sample size and without any control variables accounted for. If you'd really like to make the claim that these protests are more than infrequently violent, you'll not only have to show that these events are occurring with any significant frequency, and that they're occurring absent antagonism/instigation from counter-protestors (since it's not really the same thing to beat on any old car and to beat on a car that just tried to run over your friend), but you'll also have to show that these rates of violence are higher than those found at other mass gatherings--i.e. are you more likely to get into a fight at a protest or at a Flyers game? Because absent that final clause you might simply just be noticing that big group events are more than infrequently violent.

Quote:
Shootings by protestors are rare (if you dont count the four at CHAZ, the one BBQ guy in Louisville, the one this past weekend in Louisville, Indy, the two in Vegas, etc., etc.) but attacking innocent bystanders is not. Twitter is awash in videos that are a bit too graphic to post here but can easily be located if that's your thing.


Again, you're both nebulous on both kind and amount here. "Attacking innocent bystanders" is vague--does that mean beating on someone's car window or firing a gun into it? Are those the same thing? What kind of protests count? Marches? Encampments? Both? Was the boogaloo shooter in Oakland a protestor too? Was the white guy who drove into the CHAZ and shot a protestor also himself a protestor? What happened at the statue removal in New Mexico--does anyone there count as an innocent bystander? What I see on Twitter is a lot of scenes of inflamed tensions that, yes, sometimes lead to violence, but until we get a count of scenes of one-sided violence vs. overall protests the claim that these are not isolated events is spurious at best.

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 Post subject: Re: The Protest Thread
PostPosted: Wed July 01, 2020 12:24 am 
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Micky really going to the mat for these agitators.


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 Post subject: Re: The Protest Thread
PostPosted: Wed July 01, 2020 12:28 am 
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somehow the logic that a minority of poorly behaved police officers means all police officers are terrible doesn’t hold when applied to the minority of poorly behaved protestors

(hint: because the logic is wrong)

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 Post subject: Re: The Protest Thread
PostPosted: Wed July 01, 2020 12:30 am 
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96583UP wrote:
somehow the logic that a minority of poorly behaved police officers means all police officers are terrible doesn’t hold when applied to the minority of poorly behaved protestors

(hint: because the logic is wrong)


Lucky for me this has never been my logic.

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 Post subject: Re: The Protest Thread
PostPosted: Wed July 01, 2020 12:32 am 
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sometimes better to be lucky than smart

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 Post subject: Re: The Protest Thread
PostPosted: Wed July 01, 2020 12:34 am 
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I can see how that would be the case for you.

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