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Rape exceptions don't make any sense, but risk to the mother does, short of some kind of really extreme fatalist Christian doctrine, which I don't think is taken very seriously.
And obviously state lines wouldn't matter in principle, but practically speaking they wouldn't be able to ban abortion where they have no power, assuming federal power is kept weak enough that it couldn't be used to force everyone under the same way of life.
so you want us to try to compromise with someone who thinks this?
An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 5:13 pm Posts: 39764 Location: 6000 feet beyond man and time.
warehouse wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
Rape exceptions don't make any sense, but risk to the mother does, short of some kind of really extreme fatalist Christian doctrine, which I don't think is taken very seriously.
And obviously state lines wouldn't matter in principle, but practically speaking they wouldn't be able to ban abortion where they have no power, assuming federal power is kept weak enough that it couldn't be used to force everyone under the same way of life.
so you want us to try to compromise with someone who thinks this?
If you think a human life is at stake, why would it matter if they were conceived by rape? There are plenty of people walking around who were conceived by rape. I don't see why they should have less right to life.
Rape exceptions don't make any sense, but risk to the mother does, short of some kind of really extreme fatalist Christian doctrine, which I don't think is taken very seriously.
And obviously state lines wouldn't matter in principle, but practically speaking they wouldn't be able to ban abortion where they have no power, assuming federal power is kept weak enough that it couldn't be used to force everyone under the same way of life.
so you want us to try to compromise with someone who thinks this?
If you think a human life is at stake, why would it matter if they were conceived by rape? There are plenty of people walking around who were conceived by rape. I don't see why they should have less right to life.
An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 5:13 pm Posts: 39764 Location: 6000 feet beyond man and time.
Or put another way: I don't know where you draw the line where abortion is too late, but I don't see why rape would allow for an exemption for crossing that line.
Or put another way: I don't know where you draw the line where abortion is too late, but I don't see why rape would allow for an exemption for crossing that line.
i'm a dude and will never give birth, so that is not a line i can draw
An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 5:13 pm Posts: 39764 Location: 6000 feet beyond man and time.
warehouse wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
Or put another way: I don't know where you draw the line where abortion is too late, but I don't see why rape would allow for an exemption for crossing that line.
i'm a dude and will never give birth, so that is not a line i can draw
You don't have a say in determining when it's too late to have an abortion? That makes no sense.
why would it matter if they were conceived by rape?
Right. So let’s go back to this
McParadigm wrote:
Absent the ability to compromise, the entire argument boils down to “why can’t you take the time to listen and understand where I’m coming from, so you can see why I can never compromise with you.“
What compromise package would a religious right anti-abortion voter be prepared to engage with?
An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 5:13 pm Posts: 39764 Location: 6000 feet beyond man and time.
None. That's what I was getting at. No compromise is possible. I think I was just under the impression there was some kind of attempt at debate about it (which is interesting to me), but then I realized that hasn't been the case for decades so...
why would it matter if they were conceived by rape?
Right. So let’s go back to this
McParadigm wrote:
Absent the ability to compromise, the entire argument boils down to “why can’t you take the time to listen and understand where I’m coming from, so you can see why I can never compromise with you.“
What compromise package would a religious right anti-abortion voter be prepared to engage with?
Either they don't have the numbers to dictate the outcome or they are inconsistent. If people voted in-line with Gallup polling on this issue in particular, we'd have a Europe like compromise of 12 weeks.
None. That's what I was getting at. No compromise is possible. I think I was just under the impression there was some kind of attempt at debate about it (which is interesting to me), but then I realized that hasn't been the case for decades so...
There is a debate. And it includes everybody except the people you are describing. Rejection of compromise is also self-ejection from the compromise table.
simple schoolboy wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
why would it matter if they were conceived by rape?
Right. So let’s go back to this
McParadigm wrote:
Absent the ability to compromise, the entire argument boils down to “why can’t you take the time to listen and understand where I’m coming from, so you can see why I can never compromise with you.“
What compromise package would a religious right anti-abortion voter be prepared to engage with?
Either they don't have the numbers to dictate the outcome or they are inconsistent. If people voted in-line with Gallup polling on this issue in particular, we'd have a Europe like compromise of 12 weeks.
Burt is well aware. He has pointed out multiple times in the past that, for a person with a religion-based opposition to abortion, there is zero justification for ever compromising on the issue.
And there isn’t….not for rape, not for risk to the mother, and not for state lines. That’s exactly why they would never support common sense compromise positions like the ones put forward by Bi_3…the legal enforcement of their theocratic values on this issue is the only answer that isn’t horrific mortal sin.
But that is also the perfect demonstration of why it’s a waste of time to even bother. Absent the ability to compromise, the entire argument boils down to “why can’t you take the time to listen and understand where I’m coming from, so you can see why I can never compromise with you.“
I assume you're talking about the Evangelical types, I agree. There is no common ground to be found there and it is a waste of time to try an persuade them to compromise. As Schoolboy pointed out, they don't have the numbers, they are just more dedicated to vote centrally on this issue:
For close to 3/4 of voters it's not a deciding issue (I suspect that number will go down temporarily this summer). So if the blue team will "primary" anyone who doesn't share unpopular activist views on other culture wars issues, they will lose by association on abortion.
_________________ "The fatal flaw of all revolutionaries is that they know how to tear things down but don't have a f**king clue about how to build anything."
An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 5:13 pm Posts: 39764 Location: 6000 feet beyond man and time.
McParadigm wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
None. That's what I was getting at. No compromise is possible. I think I was just under the impression there was some kind of attempt at debate about it (which is interesting to me), but then I realized that hasn't been the case for decades so...
There is a debate. And it includes everybody except the people you are describing. Rejection of compromise is also self-ejection from the compromise table.
There is no debate on the subject of abortion itself, though, or at least not much anymore. Not by the left or the right. Not saying there should be, though.
As for what laws are made, that's a mixture of a lot of things, only one of which is compromise. Refusal to compromise always has a seat at the table, too.
Joined: Fri January 04, 2013 1:46 am Posts: 2831 Location: Connecticut
I am in 100% agreement that exceptions for anything other than the life of the mother are bullshit. The exception ends up undermining the basic argument.
Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 6:02 am Posts: 9712 Location: Tristes Tropiques
Lol. Lmao.
_________________
VinylGuy wrote:
its really tiresome to see these ¨good guys¨ talking about any political stuff in tv while also being kinda funny and hip and cool....its just...please enough of this shit.
I am in 100% agreement that exceptions for anything other than the life of the mother are bullshit. The exception ends up undermining the basic argument.
what if the baby has something wrong with it and will only live a short time?
i'm not even going to get into rape. in fact there should be a law that women are allowed to murder the unborn child of their rapist just so we're clear about everything.
does anyone on the pro-life side of things actually think this is going to prevent abortions?
An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 5:13 pm Posts: 39764 Location: 6000 feet beyond man and time.
warehouse wrote:
what if the baby has something wrong with it and will only live a short time?
I don't know but that reminds me about how Downs Syndrome people have been aborted out of existence in some places and it's hard to not see some eugenics at play here, but the future of all of this is going to get very weird.
what if the baby has something wrong with it and will only live a short time?
I don't know but that reminds me about how Downs Syndrome people have been aborted out of existence in some places and it's hard to not see some eugenics at play here, but the future of all of this is going to get very weird.
you've already demonstrated you are only here to play dumbass 'gotcha' internet games. let me know when you have an opinion. i'm obviously not talking about Downs Syndrome.
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