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An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 5:13 pm Posts: 39762 Location: 6000 feet beyond man and time.
warehouse wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
Re. abortion: The left's arguments are as dumb as the right's. The right generally has a built in excuse of "God told them", which, while not great, is at least in keeping with their system. The Left's basis is just pure fantasy and making up weird motivations of its enemies to have something to rail against/appeal to/reason with.
what on earth are you even talking about? "God told them" is literally a fantasy.
So are bizarre claims that science gives any knowledge on when a person comes into existence. It's all completely arbitrary.
Re. abortion: The left's arguments are as dumb as the right's. The right generally has a built in excuse of "God told them", which, while not great, is at least in keeping with their system. The Left's basis is just pure fantasy and making up weird motivations of its enemies to have something to rail against/appeal to/reason with.
what on earth are you even talking about? "God told them" is literally a fantasy.
So are bizarre claims that science gives any knowledge on when a person comes into existence. It's all completely arbitrary.
so why are we even considering it? if a woman's life is in danger from a pregnancy, why does someone's arbitrary belief about when life starts dictate her healthcare options?
An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 5:13 pm Posts: 39762 Location: 6000 feet beyond man and time.
warehouse wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
warehouse wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
Re. abortion: The left's arguments are as dumb as the right's. The right generally has a built in excuse of "God told them", which, while not great, is at least in keeping with their system. The Left's basis is just pure fantasy and making up weird motivations of its enemies to have something to rail against/appeal to/reason with.
what on earth are you even talking about? "God told them" is literally a fantasy.
So are bizarre claims that science gives any knowledge on when a person comes into existence. It's all completely arbitrary.
so why are we even considering it? if a woman's life is in danger from a pregnancy, why does someone's arbitrary belief about when life starts dictate her healthcare options?
That's a pretty extreme example.
Why wouldn't our morals and beliefs determine our healthcare options? It determines everything else.
An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 5:13 pm Posts: 39762 Location: 6000 feet beyond man and time.
The hard truth is that one side honestly believes that abortion is killing babies and the other side honestly believes it isn't. I guess the side that wins is the one that convinces everyone its arbitrarily determined point, where something becomes a person, is the true one.
Scientism has a pretty good track record over good old timey religion I think. They're both bullshit though.
An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 5:13 pm Posts: 39762 Location: 6000 feet beyond man and time.
elliseamos wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
elliseamos wrote:
When is it okay to pull the plug, Burt?
When they can no longer provide tax revenue to the state.
elliseamos wrote:
The line that ends life should be the line that starts it.
If you say so!
I'm asking you if you'd agree to that. I'm saying I would.
No gotcha. No R vs. D. Just trying to break up your solo posting, really.
Well I used to be of the opinion that we should take the "better safe than sorry" approach, and draw the line at conception to avoid the possibility of accidentally killing a child (and since we can't really do anything about killing eggs or sperm anyway, there is no reason to worry about them).
But this is basically just Pascal's Wager. And Pascal's Wager has a lot of problems. So that doesn't really work, unless there is a God and he cares what we do, which as far as I'm concerned, we can't know.
So do we leave the decision up to the individual (in this case, women only I guess?) That appeals to the libertarian in me, at least until it's pointed out that women have no special knowledge of when something is a person, and if it is a person, then they also have a right to live, and no one has the right of choosing to kill someone for their own benefit. So that doesn't really work either...
So, is the framework wrong? Should we get rid of the whole concept of "human"? Should I look to my own experience and say that a self becomes a self around 2 or 3? (I can't remember exactly. It's foggy.) That's assuming there are other selves and they are like me and I'm not just floating alone in the void...
Of course that would mean you could kill infants, too. Something a lot of cultures did before...
So uh, maybe just whatever the date is that the earliest foetus survived outside the womb, minus a few weeks just in case...
An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 5:13 pm Posts: 39762 Location: 6000 feet beyond man and time.
A lot of people say life begins at consciousness, but that doesn't really hold any water with me and is as arbitrary as anything else. What even is consciousness?
Personally I've never been super comfortable with abortion as birth control, but I support it for pragmatic reasons (fewer unwanted kids in the world = less crime and suffering) and because I don't really believe human life is sacred.
Joined: Fri January 04, 2013 1:46 am Posts: 2831 Location: Connecticut
warehouse wrote:
Rob wrote:
warehouse wrote:
JuanHamm wrote:
I really don't think, for most people, its that malicious.
If you really believed that life began at conception then the idea of abortion would be pretty abhorrent.
'the pope digs population freedom from taxation' -sixto rodriguez
I love that song.
JuanHamm wrote:
I really don't think, for most people, its that malicious.
If you really believed that life began at conception then the idea of abortion would be pretty abhorrent.
I agree with you. This is why abortion is tricky. One side advocates for the woman, one for the unborn. I really don’t know how you reconcile this type of thing, but there are 2 genuine, heartfelt arguments here.
this isn't advocating for the unborn. if people wanted to do that they would call for better and free prenatal care. and this isn't going to stop any abortions, it's just making it harder for women to control their own bodies. it's almost like people want to punish women for getting pregnant by making them carry a child to term. and every single argument goes back to religion and the belief that life starts at conception. even if it's only going to actually effect a small amount of the population, this is such a huge step in the wrong direction everyone should wonder what the hell is going on. i can't believe this actually happened.
why don't i see the phrase "activist judges" in the media?
All I’m saying is that, like Juan, I don’t see the majority of pro lifers acting with malice. There’s two genuine points of view. I don’t like what’s happened, myself.
I should correct myself and say that both sides assign batshit crazy motives to their enemies.
Anti-abortion advocates say that pro-abortion team know they are killing babies but they are too selfish to care.
The other side insists that the anti-abortion side doesn't actually care about babies and just wants to control women's bodies.
Just total nonsense all around.
well lets see the are all for the rights of a parasite before it is born but dont give a shit about children after they are born. Rs voted agains free school lunches, day care, stopping school shootings and a slew of other things
while you are right that both sides assign traits the one side that assigns traits at least has a spot of truth
_________________ Did the Mother Fucker pay extra to yell?
I should correct myself and say that both sides assign batshit crazy motives to their enemies.
Anti-abortion advocates say that pro-abortion team know they are killing babies but they are too selfish to care.
The other side insists that the anti-abortion side doesn't actually care about babies and just wants to control women's bodies.
Just total nonsense all around.
well lets see the are all for the rights of a parasite before it is born but dont give a shit about children after they are born. Rs voted agains free school lunches, day care, stopping school shootings and a slew of other things
while you are right that both sides assign traits the one side that assigns traits at least has a spot of truth
I do enjoy that crises pregnancy centers simultaneously lie to women and don't exist, depending on the context we are discussing them in.
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