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Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 7:41 am Posts: 19724 Location: Cumberland, RI
Anders wrote:
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention does not recommend that people who are well wear a face mask (including respirators) to protect themselves from respiratory diseases, including COVID-19.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention does not recommend that people who are well wear a face mask (including respirators) to protect themselves from respiratory diseases, including COVID-19.
With my own experiences, everything I’ve read, and the successful fight against the virus in Denmark and Norway, two places where nearly no one wear masks, I’m sceptical that it’s the tool you need to beat this thing.
Last edited by Anders on Thu July 02, 2020 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Joined: Fri January 04, 2013 1:46 am Posts: 2837 Location: Connecticut
Anders wrote:
The biggest concern that doctors have around recommending masks is the false sense of security that might come along with wearing one.
Do you believe this? I just don't see how this can be true in practice. The mask is a constant reminder that you should be careful. The act of putting it on is an attempt to be careful.
The biggest concern that doctors have around recommending masks is the false sense of security that might come along with wearing one.
Do you believe this? I just don't see how this can be true in practice. The mask is a constant reminder that you should be careful. The act of putting it on is an attempt to be careful.
How many people do you think follows this advice, or don’t touch their mask?
«If you choose to wear a surgical mask, make sure you have the best fit possible around your mouth and nose. Properly dispose of the mask and put on a new one anytime someone coughing or sneezing around you contaminates it.»
After what you quoted it also said: « There are a lot of reasons why face masks are not ideal. For example, it’s really hard to find one that fits perfectly around your nose and mouth or to keep it on for a long period of time. The minute you scratch your nose or touch your mouth behind the mask, you’ve lost the protection that the mask is supposed to offer.»
In one place, one of the guys that recommended people wearing masks, touched his own mask three times during the press conference.
Joined: Fri January 04, 2013 1:46 am Posts: 2837 Location: Connecticut
I'm not suggesting masks are THE tool we need. But I do think it matters. It can definitely help and we have data here in the US to show (states with mask mandates are doing better).
Joined: Sun November 03, 2013 7:44 am Posts: 311 Location: Colorado, USA
Anders wrote:
Rob wrote:
Anders wrote:
The biggest concern that doctors have around recommending masks is the false sense of security that might come along with wearing one.
Do you believe this? I just don't see how this can be true in practice. The mask is a constant reminder that you should be careful. The act of putting it on is an attempt to be careful.
How many people do you think follows this advice, or don’t touch their mask?
«If you choose to wear a surgical mask, make sure you have the best fit possible around your mouth and nose. Properly dispose of the mask and put on a new one anytime someone coughing or sneezing around you contaminates it.»
After what you quoted it also said: « There are a lot of reasons why face masks are not ideal. For example, it’s really hard to find one that fits perfectly around your nose and mouth or to keep it on for a long period of time. The minute you scratch your nose or touch your mouth behind the mask, you’ve lost the protection that the mask is supposed to offer.»
In one place, one of the guys that recommended people wearing masks, touched his own mask three times during the press conference.
This all sounds like it is addressing wearing a mask to protect the wearer.
The recommendation that everyone in public wear a mask is to protect other people from the wearer. Not the wearer from other people. So if I'm infected and able to spread it to others, it doesn't matter that my hands are all over my face. I'm already infected. By wearing a mask I am helping to prevent spreading my infection to others.
To address another point of concern: Scientists have concluded that it does more good than harm to have people wearing masks/face coverings. There is potential for healthy people wearing a mask/face covering to touch their face more frequently because of the mask and infect themselves, but that will happen less often than the mask preventing the spread from a sick person to surrounding non-sick people. I don't immedetiately have a study or news article to point to, but from interviews with epidemiologists it really seems the virus spreads much more commonly from person to person in the air than from object to person. edit: And actually this is what the CDC is stating now too: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... reads.html
In my own personal experience wearing a homemade, cloth face covering, I don't touch my face at all when wearing it. And as kind of a cool observation I don't have the urge to touch my face when wearing it either. Which is a big deal, because when I'm home and not worried about surfaces, touching my face is a real source of comfort to me. It's one way I cope with anxiety and actually really like touching my face lol
edit: Wearing a mask a little imprecisely, where maybe there isn't a good seal but the mask is still covering my nose and mouth, is still going to prevent me from spreading the virus to others. It's not perfect. And then too, even wearing a non-n95 mask 100% correctly is not going to stop all aerosols. But knowing that wearing a homemade mask/face covering may not be full-proof, it's been shown to still make a substantial positive difference in preventing spreading germs to others.
Quote:
Researchers know that even simple masks can effectively stop droplets spewing from an infected wearer’s nose or mouth. In a study published in April in Nature, scientists showed that when people who are infected with influenza, rhinovirus or a mild cold-causing coronavirus wore a mask, it blocked nearly 100 percent of the viral droplets they exhaled, as well as some tiny aerosol particles.
I know that is just one study. So it would be beneficial to site cite other sources. But there is a real consensus now that mask wearing is one very important measure that can be taken along with keeping physical distance to decrease the spread of coronavirus. I'd have to find an example, but I've read many quotes from epidemiologists that the goal is not to lower the spread of coronavirus 100%. No one thinks that's realistic. Instead you have to take measures that collectively lessen the spread by 60% 70% or whatever compared to taking no measures at all. And that's how we can expect to bring down or keep in check the virus reproduction number while we wait for herd immunity, hopefully through a vaccine and not infection.
Last edited by The Town on Thu July 02, 2020 11:22 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Joined: Sun November 03, 2013 7:44 am Posts: 311 Location: Colorado, USA
This NY Times article is seriously a must read
Many officials around the world of all kinds –health and political– have done an egregious job communicating to the public. And as an American, there's a lot to be said about the failures and how fucked up politics and education is in the U.S. But I'll leave it at this for now:
Scientists at the time[January] believed that only people with symptoms could spread the coronavirus. They assumed it acted like its genetic cousin, SARS.
“People who know much more about coronaviruses than I do were absolutely sure,” recalled Dr. Rothe, an infectious disease specialist at Munich University Hospital.
But if the experts were wrong, if the virus could spread from seemingly healthy carriers or people who had not yet developed symptoms, the ramifications were potentially catastrophic. Public-awareness campaigns, airport screening and stay-home-if-you’re sick policies might not stop it. More aggressive measures might be required — ordering healthy people to wear masks, for instance, or restricting international travel.
...
With that tweet[February 4, 2020], the W.H.O. focused on a semantic distinction that would cloud discussion for months: Was the patient asymptomatic, meaning she would never show symptoms? Or pre-symptomatic, meaning she became sick later? Or, even more confusing, oligo-symptomatic, meaning that she had symptoms so mild that she didn’t recognize them?
Still[in June], the W.H.O. is sending confusing signals. Earlier this month[June], Dr. Van Kerkhove, the technical lead, repeated that transmission from asymptomatic patients was “very rare.” After an outcry from doctors, the agency said there had been a misunderstanding.
By early March, while the World Health Organization continued pressing the case that symptom-free transmission was rare, science was breaking in the other direction.
By the end of the month[March], the U.S. Centers for Disease Control announced it was rethinking its policy on masks. It concluded that up to 25 percent of patients might have no symptoms. Since then, the C.D.C., governments around the world and, finally, the World Health Organization have recommended that people wear masks in public.
Joined: Thu January 10, 2013 2:19 am Posts: 8898 Location: SOUTH PORTLAND
Anders and others forgive me if this has already been pointed out, but has anyone put on the table the fact that the countries you're comparing to the US already have a better baseline of health care for their citizens than the US? And much more homogeneous populations?
Enough can't be said about how archaic the US Healthcare System is to begin with, before you introduce a new virus and incompetent leadership.
Joined: Sat January 05, 2013 7:30 am Posts: 8213 Location: nothing
McParadigm wrote:
Me, reading that Arizona, Arkansas, California, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas all have record new case numbers: “Of course! The states that were home to the most active and heavily attended BLM protests!”
Where did you get the "states with the most active/heavily attended BLM protests" from? Im trying to find that. I thought I read that the cities with the big crowds were actually neutral in any increases, probably because of the offset from the number of people who stayed home because of the civil unrest
_________________ crazy strong wind on the ride back had to mega pump the quads
Me, reading that Arizona, Arkansas, California, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas all have record new case numbers: “Of course! The states that were home to the most active and heavily attended BLM protests!”
Where did you get the "states with the most active/heavily attended BLM protests" from? Im trying to find that. I thought I read that the cities with the big crowds were actually neutral in any increases, probably because of the offset from the number of people who stayed home because of the civil unrest
That’s the joke, but don’t worry about it. It was poorly told.
Joined: Sat January 05, 2013 7:30 am Posts: 8213 Location: nothing
McParadigm wrote:
knee tunes wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
Me, reading that Arizona, Arkansas, California, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas all have record new case numbers: “Of course! The states that were home to the most active and heavily attended BLM protests!”
Where did you get the "states with the most active/heavily attended BLM protests" from? Im trying to find that. I thought I read that the cities with the big crowds were actually neutral in any increases, probably because of the offset from the number of people who stayed home because of the civil unrest
That’s the joke, but don’t worry about it. It was poorly told.
I'm bad at some stuff sorry!
(I'm grumpy now being bad at jokes )
_________________ crazy strong wind on the ride back had to mega pump the quads
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