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 Post subject: Gender Pay Gap
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:28 pm 
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Does it exist? If so, why does it exist?

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 Post subject: Re: Gender Pay Gap
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:39 pm 
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tree_ wrote:
Does it exist?

Yes.

tree_ wrote:
If so, why does it exist?

Because corporations are typically mandated to maximize company profits, and that includes low-balling female employees on their salaries whenever possible.


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 Post subject: Re: Gender Pay Gap
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:41 pm 
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Oh boy.

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 Post subject: Re: Gender Pay Gap
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:42 pm 
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tragabigzanda wrote:
tree_ wrote:
Does it exist?

Yes.

tree_ wrote:
If so, why does it exist?

Because corporations are typically mandated to maximize company profits, and that includes low-balling female employees on their salaries whenever possible.

Proof?

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 Post subject: Re: Gender Pay Gap
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:45 pm 
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tragabigzanda wrote:
tree_ wrote:
If so, why does it exist?

Because corporations are typically mandated to maximize company profits, and that includes low-balling female employees on their salaries whenever possible.

No.


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 Post subject: Re: Gender Pay Gap
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:47 pm 
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--- wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
tree_ wrote:
If so, why does it exist?

Because corporations are typically mandated to maximize company profits, and that includes low-balling female employees on their salaries whenever possible.

No.

Yes. It's in Article IV of the Constitution.

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 Post subject: Re: Gender Pay Gap
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:48 pm 
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On the corporate part, the specific legalities are hotly debated, but in practice it is generally accepted that unless the corporation is set up as a B-Corp, a Certified B-Corp (different), or as a conventional S-Corp or C-Corp but with uniquely specific governing documents, then yes, they have shareholders who want to see the best possible performance and typically have male executives who are 40+ years of age and come from a different era/school of thought.

https://www.litigationandtrial.com/2010 ... e-profits/

https://www.reddit.com/r/law/comments/3 ... e_legally/

http://www.corporatepolicy.org/2012/03/ ... e-profits/

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2 ... ze-profits

As for proof of the gender pay gap apart from any corporate law, the body of research is quite sufficient:

https://www.aauw.org/research/the-simpl ... r-pay-gap/
https://www.dol.gov/wb/resources/Womens ... Gap_17.pdf
https://inequality.stanford.edu/sites/d ... search.pdf
https://www.vox.com/2018/2/19/17018380/ ... re-penalty


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 Post subject: Re: Gender Pay Gap
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:49 pm 
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What evidence would you accept that might change your mind, tragabigzanda?


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 Post subject: Re: Gender Pay Gap
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:51 pm 
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tragabigzanda wrote:
On the corporate part, the specific legalities are hotly debated, but in practice it is generally accepted that unless the corporation is set up as a B-Corp, a Certified B-Corp (different), or as a conventional S-Corp or C-Corp but with uniquely specific governing documents, then yes, they have shareholders who want to see the best possible performance and typically have male executives who are 40+ years of age and come from a different era/school of thought.

https://www.litigationandtrial.com/2010 ... e-profits/

https://www.reddit.com/r/law/comments/3 ... e_legally/

http://www.corporatepolicy.org/2012/03/ ... e-profits/

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2 ... ze-profits

As for proof of the gender pay gap apart from any corporate law, the body of research is quite sufficient:

https://www.aauw.org/research/the-simpl ... r-pay-gap/
https://www.dol.gov/wb/resources/Womens ... Gap_17.pdf
https://inequality.stanford.edu/sites/d ... search.pdf
https://www.vox.com/2018/2/19/17018380/ ... re-penalty

I haven't clicked your links, but can we just define our terms before we start? What's the size of the gender gap you're claiming? I agree that one exists, but I think evidence shows it's much smaller than the widely used $0.79 on the dollar that gets tossed around so frequently. So let's start there.

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 Post subject: Re: Gender Pay Gap
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:52 pm 
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I don't see how low-balling female employees would be a viable solution.

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 Post subject: Re: Gender Pay Gap
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:53 pm 
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tree_ wrote:
I don't see how low-balling female employees would be a viable solution.

It's not.

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"I want to see the whole picture--as nearly as I can. I don't want to put on the blinders of 'good and bad,' and limit my vision."-- In Dubious Battle



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 Post subject: Re: Gender Pay Gap
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:53 pm 
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--- wrote:
What evidence would you accept that might change your mind, tragabigzanda?

What part of my mind are you proposing to change?
That a gender pay gap exists?
Or that, forgetting the legalities, corporations are typically operated to maximize profits?


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 Post subject: Re: Gender Pay Gap
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:54 pm 
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4/5 wrote:
tree_ wrote:
I don't see how low-balling female employees would be a viable solution.

It's not.

Correct.


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 Post subject: Re: Gender Pay Gap
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:54 pm 
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If there is actually a gap, there are many reasons. The fact that women sacrifice their careers by giving birth being a big one. Another, that most men take all of the dangerous jobs.

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 Post subject: Re: Gender Pay Gap
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:55 pm 
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Nobody disputes that corporations are set up to explicitly pursue profit.

To the extent that there is evidence that suggests simple gender discrimination on the part of individuals within those profit-pursuing corporations is the primary determinant of the wage gap - which I agree exists - it is dwarfed by evidence that suggests non-discriminatory factors are responsible for the wage divergence.


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 Post subject: Re: Gender Pay Gap
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:55 pm 
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4/5 wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
On the corporate part, the specific legalities are hotly debated, but in practice it is generally accepted that unless the corporation is set up as a B-Corp, a Certified B-Corp (different), or as a conventional S-Corp or C-Corp but with uniquely specific governing documents, then yes, they have shareholders who want to see the best possible performance and typically have male executives who are 40+ years of age and come from a different era/school of thought.

https://www.litigationandtrial.com/2010 ... e-profits/

https://www.reddit.com/r/law/comments/3 ... e_legally/

http://www.corporatepolicy.org/2012/03/ ... e-profits/

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2 ... ze-profits

As for proof of the gender pay gap apart from any corporate law, the body of research is quite sufficient:

https://www.aauw.org/research/the-simpl ... r-pay-gap/
https://www.dol.gov/wb/resources/Womens ... Gap_17.pdf
https://inequality.stanford.edu/sites/d ... search.pdf
https://www.vox.com/2018/2/19/17018380/ ... re-penalty

I haven't clicked your links, but can we just define our terms before we start? What's the size of the gender gap you're claiming? I agree that one exists, but I think evidence shows it's much smaller than the widely used $0.79 on the dollar that gets tossed around so frequently. So let's start there.

Oh I have no opinion on this. I agree that $0.79 is the figure most often cited, but I've not looked at research closely enough to take any sort of stance on this.


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 Post subject: Re: Gender Pay Gap
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:56 pm 
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tragabigzanda wrote:
--- wrote:
What evidence would you accept that might change your mind, tragabigzanda?

What part of my mind are you proposing to change?
That a gender pay gap exists?
Or that, forgetting the legalities, corporations are typically operated to maximize profits?

Of course they want to maximize profits. I don't want to read through all your links. Is there proof in there that low-balling female employees is a point of operation in order to do so?

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 Post subject: Re: Gender Pay Gap
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 5:01 pm 
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tree_ wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
--- wrote:
What evidence would you accept that might change your mind, tragabigzanda?

What part of my mind are you proposing to change?
That a gender pay gap exists?
Or that, forgetting the legalities, corporations are typically operated to maximize profits?

Of course they want to maximize profits. I don't want to read through all your links. Is there proof in there that low-balling female employees is a point of operation in order to do so?


I don't know, I didn't read those links. But I've been a part of the work force long enough; am married to an exceptionally intelligent and well-paid woman; and have formed my own C-Corp and follow all the legal mumbo jumbo to the letter to know that whenever there's money to be saved, corporations will do it, and that negotiating a lower salary with an employee is one easy way to save pennies (often at the cost of attracting or retaining better team members who would likely yield higher profits).


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 Post subject: Re: Gender Pay Gap
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 5:01 pm 
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Best recent paper on the issue: https://web.stanford.edu/~diamondr/UberPayGap.pdf

Quote:
The growth of the "gig" economy generates worker flexibility that, some have speculated, will
favor women. We explore one facet of the gig economy by examining labor supply choices
and earnings among more than a million rideshare drivers on Uber in the U.S. Perhaps most
surprisingly, we find that there is a roughly 7% gender earnings gap amongst drivers. The
uniqueness of our data—knowing exactly the production and compensation functions—permits
us to completely unpack the underlying determinants of the gender earnings gap. We find that
the entire gender gap is caused by three factors: experience on the platform (learning-by-doing),
preferences over where/when to work, and preferences for driving speed. This suggests that,
as the gig economy grows and brings more flexibility in employment, women’s relatively high
opportunity cost of non-paid-work time and gender-based preference differences can perpetuate
a gender earnings gap even in the absence of discrimination.

The literature review is also worth reading.


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 Post subject: Re: Gender Pay Gap
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 5:02 pm 
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tragabigzanda wrote:
tree_ wrote:
Does it exist?

Yes.

tree_ wrote:
If so, why does it exist?

Because corporations are typically mandated to maximize company profits, and that includes low-balling female employees on their salaries whenever possible.


Your statement raises the question....Why not low-ball male employees to maximize profits even more? The answer to THAT would more appropriately answer the original question

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Last edited by knee tunes on Thu May 24, 2018 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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