The board's server will undergo upgrade maintenance tonight, Nov 5, 2014, beginning approximately around 10 PM ET. Prepare for some possible down time during this process.
FAQ    Search

Board index » Word on the Street » News & Debate




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 267 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ... 14  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Jordan Peterson
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 6:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Rank This Poster
 Profile

Joined: Mon March 18, 2013 11:48 pm
Posts: 4011
Most people just don't know what the fuck they are talking about even when defining their own beliefs.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Jordan Peterson
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 6:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Fake NYC Setlist Relayer
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu April 04, 2013 6:27 am
Posts: 7648
Location: Port Perry Lodge on voluptuous Lake Perry
A classical liberal value he holds that's relevant here is that of protecting civil liberties, thus his clash with compelled speech law.

_________________
tree_ presents M_D's Video Game Tournament: A Thief's End


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Jordan Peterson
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 6:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar
The Master
 Profile

Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 51569
Location: Sector 7-G
run2death wrote:
Most people just don't know what the fuck they are talking about even when defining their own beliefs.

very true


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Jordan Peterson
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 6:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Future Drummer
 Profile

Joined: Thu December 20, 2012 4:45 pm
Posts: 3334
Mickey wrote:
I don't think alt-right and classical liberal mean the same thing. But they are both right-wing positions.

I think this is mostly true, although it depends on issues you're discussing. A liberal and classical liberal/libertarian should get along on social issues quite well. In fact, the classical liberal is often more liberal on these issues than the liberal.
On economic issues, they obviously favor freer markets which is on the right economically.

So while I don't think they fit on a left/right spectrum so much, I would absolutely agree that most "classical liberals" in the U.S. come to that position from a right-wing starting point, therefore it ends up as more right-wing position. Additionally, the ardent anti-collectivist nature emphasizes the economic axis more than the social one, further reinforcing the right-wing nature.

And there are a lot of the fake classical liberals as Chud mentioned that voted for Trump/Republicans, again reinforcing the right-wing position.

But if you examine the ideology itself, I think a left/right distinction is mostly meaningless in this case.

_________________
"I want to see the whole picture--as nearly as I can. I don't want to put on the blinders of 'good and bad,' and limit my vision."-- In Dubious Battle



Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Jordan Peterson
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 6:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Future Drummer
 Profile

Joined: Thu December 20, 2012 4:45 pm
Posts: 3334
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
They are all shitheads who deserve to be exterminated, so what’s the difference

This is a position that can only lead to a reasonable exchange of ideas.

_________________
"I want to see the whole picture--as nearly as I can. I don't want to put on the blinders of 'good and bad,' and limit my vision."-- In Dubious Battle



Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Jordan Peterson
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 6:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Rank This Poster
 Profile

Joined: Mon March 18, 2013 11:48 pm
Posts: 4011
LOL


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Jordan Peterson
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 6:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Future Drummer
 Profile

Joined: Thu December 20, 2012 4:45 pm
Posts: 3334
cutuphalfdead wrote:
I've just noticed, mostly through working on conservative AM radio, that people who are clearly alt right in their views paint themselves in terminology that makes you think they're more classical liberal or traditional center right. And I think that leads to people like LV thinking the two are closer in ideology than they really are.

Good lord man, how do you do that? Yeesh.

Okay now we're on the same page. I agree with you.

_________________
"I want to see the whole picture--as nearly as I can. I don't want to put on the blinders of 'good and bad,' and limit my vision."-- In Dubious Battle



Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Jordan Peterson
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 6:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar
The Master
 Profile

Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 51569
Location: Sector 7-G
4/5 wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
I've just noticed, mostly through working on conservative AM radio, that people who are clearly alt right in their views paint themselves in terminology that makes you think they're more classical liberal or traditional center right. And I think that leads to people like LV thinking the two are closer in ideology than they really are.

Good lord man, how do you do that? Yeesh.

Okay now we're on the same page. I agree with you.

To be fair, most of my work done these days is on the news side of things, not the talk side. We're actually not a traditional conservative am news/talker that has hannity in the afternoon. We do news all day until 8pm and we do a good job keeping ideological slants out of that. But then 8-midnight we have the guy who pretty much got Scott Brown elected in Massachusetts doing his talk show.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Jordan Peterson
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 6:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar
The Master
 Profile

Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 9:32 pm
Posts: 37427
4/5 wrote:
LoathedVermin72 wrote:
They are all shitheads who deserve to be exterminated, so what’s the difference

This is a position that can only lead to a reasonable exchange of ideas.

lol like this is ever possible when it comes to contemporary american politics

_________________
lennytheweedwhacker wrote:
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
What's going on in here

a lot of hurt


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Jordan Peterson
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 6:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Fake NYC Setlist Relayer
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu April 04, 2013 6:27 am
Posts: 7648
Location: Port Perry Lodge on voluptuous Lake Perry
What politics does Peterson ever even espouse, other than his common sense clash with compelled speech and SJWs, and how does any of it make him necessarily conservative and why does it matter?

_________________
tree_ presents M_D's Video Game Tournament: A Thief's End


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Jordan Peterson
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 6:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Future Drummer
 Profile

Joined: Thu December 20, 2012 4:45 pm
Posts: 3334
cutuphalfdead wrote:
4/5 wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
I've just noticed, mostly through working on conservative AM radio, that people who are clearly alt right in their views paint themselves in terminology that makes you think they're more classical liberal or traditional center right. And I think that leads to people like LV thinking the two are closer in ideology than they really are.

Good lord man, how do you do that? Yeesh.

Okay now we're on the same page. I agree with you.

To be fair, most of my work done these days is on the news side of things, not the talk side. We're actually not a traditional conservative am news/talker that has hannity in the afternoon. We do news all day until 8pm and we do a good job keeping ideological slants out of that. But then 8-midnight we have the guy who pretty much got Scott Brown elected in Massachusetts doing his talk show.

Gotcha. I knew you were in radio, I don't think I knew it was in that AM conservative talk radio world where rational thought goes to die. I'm glad that it sounds like you're not fully in that world. I can't imagine that'd be very fun.

_________________
"I want to see the whole picture--as nearly as I can. I don't want to put on the blinders of 'good and bad,' and limit my vision."-- In Dubious Battle



Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Jordan Peterson
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 6:35 pm 
Offline
Rank This Poster
 Profile

Joined: Wed April 20, 2016 7:11 pm
Posts: 4460
tree_ wrote:
What politics does Peterson ever even espouse, other than his common sense clash with compelled speech and SJWs, and how does any of it make him necessarily conservative and why does it matter?


Do go there with this crew.

_________________
Kaius wrote:
I really hope we get this figured out soon


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Jordan Peterson
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 7:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Fake NYC Setlist Relayer
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu April 04, 2013 6:27 am
Posts: 7648
Location: Port Perry Lodge on voluptuous Lake Perry
Something good Peterson discusses worth noting: He observes personality traits inherent in particular political affiliations, meant to make you aware of your own potential biases, "a source of insight and understanding, which could cause you to step back from your own convictions and be more receptive to arguments on both sides", as Pinker put it. Peterson talks about how liberal and conservative types both need each other, are necessary, and mutually benefit when communicating. Somebody has to maintain systems (conservative) and somebody has to expand them (liberal).

_________________
tree_ presents M_D's Video Game Tournament: A Thief's End


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Jordan Peterson
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 7:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar
AnalLog
 Profile

Joined: Tue January 08, 2013 10:23 pm
Posts: 1848
Stole it from Team America


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Jordan Peterson
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 8:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar
An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
 Profile

Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 5:13 pm
Posts: 34287
Location: Donkeys live a long time.
4/5 wrote:
Mickey wrote:
I don't think alt-right and classical liberal mean the same thing. But they are both right-wing positions.

I think this is mostly true, although it depends on issues you're discussing. A liberal and classical liberal/libertarian should get along on social issues quite well. In fact, the classical liberal is often more liberal on these issues than the liberal.
On economic issues, they obviously favor freer markets which is on the right economically.

So while I don't think they fit on a left/right spectrum so much, I would absolutely agree that most "classical liberals" in the U.S. come to that position from a right-wing starting point, therefore it ends up as more right-wing position. Additionally, the ardent anti-collectivist nature emphasizes the economic axis more than the social one, further reinforcing the right-wing nature.

And there are a lot of the fake classical liberals as Chud mentioned that voted for Trump/Republicans, again reinforcing the right-wing position.

But if you examine the ideology itself, I think a left/right distinction is mostly meaningless in this case.

I mentioned this already but these days I see the political spectrum as between at least 3 separate polls, not the two we are accustomed to arguing over.

_________________
Death is coming. Eat trash. Be free.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Jordan Peterson
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 8:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar
An enigma of a man shaped hole in the wall between reality and the soul of the devil.
 Profile

Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 5:13 pm
Posts: 34287
Location: Donkeys live a long time.
Would people consider the Weinsteins (not the famous, rapey one and his brother) to be conservative? They are basically social democrats.

Classical liberalism is a somewhat broad set of beliefs with proponents across the spectrum, but I don't know how anyone could consider it a strictly right wing position except through ignorance.

It seems that both the modern right and modern left have moved wildly from their positions a decade ago (and away from each other.)

Classical liberalism largely fills in the gap left over, which is probably why both sides hate them and can't see them as anything other than alt-right or cucks. It's all they can see.

_________________
Death is coming. Eat trash. Be free.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Jordan Peterson
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 8:28 pm 
Offline
A Return To Form
 Profile

Joined: Fri January 04, 2013 1:46 am
Posts: 173
BurtReynolds wrote:
Would people consider the Weinsteins (not the famous, rapey one and his brother) to be conservative? They are basically social democrats.

Classical liberalism is a somewhat broad set of beliefs with proponents across the spectrum, but I don't know how anyone could consider it a strictly right wing position except through ignorance.

It seems that both the modern right and modern left have moved wildly from their positions a decade ago (and away from each other.)

Classical liberalism largely fills in the gap left over, which is probably why both sides hate them and can't see them as anything other than alt-right or cucks. It's all they can see.


:thumbsup:


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Jordan Peterson
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 6:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Fake NYC Setlist Relayer
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu April 04, 2013 6:27 am
Posts: 7648
Location: Port Perry Lodge on voluptuous Lake Perry
"I'm half and half, half Hobbes, half Rousseau, that's why I'm not an ideologue. Because I don't think that people are good or evil, I think they're both, I don't think that culture is security or tyranny, it's both, and I don't think that nature is benevolence or catastrophe, I think it's both. And that's why I'm not an ideologue."


_________________
tree_ presents M_D's Video Game Tournament: A Thief's End


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Jordan Peterson
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 8:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar
likes rhythmic things that butt up against each other
 Profile

Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 5:02 pm
Posts: 528
What ever happened to the silent majority?

I guess they all got smartphones.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Jordan Peterson
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 9:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar
likes rhythmic things that butt up against each other
 Profile

Joined: Wed January 02, 2013 5:02 pm
Posts: 528
I've been watching and listening to JP for some time now. The first time was when he was on the Sam Harris podcast where they argued for 4 hours on what the definition of Truth.

It's been interesting to see his rise and the subsequent backlash to it. The NYT hit piece was embarrassing, as was the Vice interview edit.

JP is not Christ, and he's not the boogeyman. He's a sober, thoughtful, tolerant guy who i don't always agree with, but makes me think. I guess that's dangerous to a certain segment of people.


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 267 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ... 14  Next

Board index » Word on the Street » News & Debate


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
It is currently Thu October 18, 2018 8:21 am