I think he's a very intelligent and thoughtful guy. I think most of the time when people take issue with something he says it's because they don't want to hear it because it clashes with their view of the world.
HeyGuys wrote:I think he's a very intelligent and thoughtful guy. I think most of the time when people take issue with something he says it's because they don't want to hear it because it clashes with their view of the world.
Yeah, his whole "debate" with Ezra was pretty painful for this reason. Sam makes specific points in long diatribes completely ignored and bypassed when it's Ezra's turn. I do love hearing Sam slowly get pissed off, though. The master meditator.
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Last edited by BurtReynolds on Tue March 07, 2023 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
HeyGuys wrote:I think he's a very intelligent and thoughtful guy. I think most of the time when people take issue with something he says it's because they don't want to hear it because it clashes with their view of the world.
Yeah, his whole "debate" with Ezra was pretty painful for this reason. Sam makes specific points in long diatribes completely ignored and bypassed when it's Ezra's turn. I do love hearing Sam slowly get pissed off, though. The master meditator.
Just heard this over the weekend, it was rough. I respect Sam quite a bit and listen to his podcast regularly but he fell right into the 'I'm not a racist but...' trap. And you're correct in that he is right in this case, empirical data clearly demonstrate that intelligence is primarily driven by genetics and since gene frequency is population groups can diverge rather drastically, it's likely we will learn lots of things that science will regard as 'fact' that makes us very uncomfortable about our cultures, histories, and ultimate ourselves. Sam's point about this is very valid that we cannot address the issues with acknowledging they exist. Where he failed, and where Ezra was correct, is that America's historical record and economic/social systems have influenced this situation in ways that no other country's has, and Sam should have acknowledged that any research showing resulting differences must be taken in that context (genes are not necessarily static over a lifetime and environment influences the expression and development of these genes).
tree_ wrote:Anybody listen to his podcasts? What do you make of his feud with Ezra Klein?
I have not had a chance to listen to the podcast yet (and from what I hear, it's not a very interesting listen), but their email exchange was hilarious. My favorite part was Harris threatening -- twice -- to make the exchange public, and then following it with the postscript "it appears this has backfired."
Bi_3 wrote:...and Sam should have acknowledged that any research showing resulting differences must be taken in that context (genes are not necessarily static over a lifetime and environment influences the expression and development of these genes).
I have to admit I'm not very smart and have a hard time following the intricacies of all this. But it seems to me this wasn't relevant. Sam pointed out how he agreed with nearly every point Ezra was making that had to do with racial injustices and that we need to do all we can to be fair and give all people a chance in this world. Ezra kept virtue signaling and evading when Sam called him out for basically calling him and Douglas Murray racists (racialists). I'm pretty sure Sam addressed this pretty dead on but I don't want to listen to the podcast again. My head hurts.
tree_ wrote:Anybody listen to his podcasts? What do you make of his feud with Ezra Klein?
I have not had a chance to listen to the podcast yet (and from what I hear, it's not a very interesting listen), but their email exchange was hilarious. My favorite part was Harris threatening -- twice -- to make the exchange public, and then following it with the postscript "it appears this has backfired."
Watch the video of him and Maajid Nawaz talking in that video posted up there. He explains what happened there and he understands he came off like a dick. You have to know the whole story.
I know the story and I watched the video. The only thing I haven't listened to is the SH/EK debate, though I did read excerpts. That part was still really funny
Sam Harris says his moment came in 2006, at a conference at the Salk Institute with Richard Dawkins, Neil deGrasse Tyson and other prominent scientists. Mr. Harris said something that he thought was obvious on its face: Not all cultures are equally conducive to human flourishing. Some are superior to others.
“Until that time I had been criticizing religion, so the people who hated what I had to say were mostly on the right,” Mr. Harris said. “This was the first time I fully understood that I had an equivalent problem with the secular left.”
After his talk, in which he disparaged the Taliban, a biologist who would go on to serve on President Barack Obama’s Commission for the Study of Bioethical Issues approached him. “I remember she said: ‘That’s just your opinion. How can you say that forcing women to wear burqas is wrong?’ But to me it’s just obvious that forcing women to live their lives inside bags is wrong. I gave her another example: What if we found a culture that was ritually blinding every third child? And she actually said, ‘It would depend on why they were doing it.’”
That’s pretty much sums up why I can’t take Progressive politics anymore.