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 Post subject: Re: Zoos: Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Mon December 04, 2017 9:11 pm 
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I go to a zoo maybe once a year or so and I do enjoy the nicer ones. And there is legitimate conservation concerns for many species.
The not so good zoos are really sad and depressing though.
Atlanta has one of the best aquariums in the world and has both whale sharks and beluga whales on display. While their exhibits are huge I hate to think how they just spend their days and days swimming in circles on end. They're well cared for and there is no danger like an animal in the wild would have but the sense of confinement is definitely there to the aquarium visitor.


Last edited by Biff Pocoroba on Mon December 04, 2017 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Zoos: Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Mon December 04, 2017 9:15 pm 
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whales don't belong in tanks, no matter what good things the tank owners do to make up for it


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 Post subject: Re: Zoos: Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Mon December 04, 2017 9:31 pm 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
whales don't belong in tanks, no matter what good things the tank owners do to make up for it


Would you say it's worse that an animal like a beluga whale be in a tank or that people who cannot afford to go whale watching never get the chance to see one?


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 Post subject: Re: Zoos: Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Mon December 04, 2017 9:34 pm 
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Bi_3 wrote:
Would you say it's worse that an animal like a beluga whale be in a tank?

yes


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 Post subject: Re: Zoos: Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Mon December 04, 2017 9:41 pm 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
Would you say it's worse that an animal like a beluga whale be in a tank?

yes


I tend to think the same (despite is feeling like privilege flexing). Something in me just says "people need nature", probably my boomer-lefist upbringing.


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 Post subject: Re: Zoos: Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Mon December 04, 2017 9:42 pm 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
Would you say it's worse that an animal like a beluga whale be in a tank?

yes

what if an endangered species is being held/raised in captivity in an effort to conserve/repopulate (due to poaching, climate change, pollution, etc)?

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 Post subject: Re: Zoos: Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Mon December 04, 2017 9:43 pm 
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Bi_3 wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
Would you say it's worse that an animal like a beluga whale be in a tank?

yes


I tend to think the same (despite is feeling like privilege flexing). Something in me just says "people need nature", probably my boomer-lefist upbringing.

people don't have a fundamental right to interact with any animal you can feasibly capture and bring to the masses

there are plenty of opportunities to interact with nature and animals that don't involve putting whales in tanks

go to a national park, visit a farm, etc, etc


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 Post subject: Re: Zoos: Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Mon December 04, 2017 9:47 pm 
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Bonus: If you visit a farm, you may have the chance to end a chicken by popping its skull with your boot.

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 Post subject: Re: Zoos: Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Mon December 04, 2017 9:48 pm 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
Would you say it's worse that an animal like a beluga whale be in a tank?

yes


I tend to think the same (despite is feeling like privilege flexing). Something in me just says "people need nature", probably my boomer-lefist upbringing.

people don't have a fundamental right to interact with any animal you can feasibly capture and bring to the masses

there are plenty of opportunities to interact with nature and animals that don't involve putting whales in tanks

go to a national park, visit a farm, etc, etc


This presumes economic ability. Perhaps whale was a bad example... sting ray?


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 Post subject: Re: Zoos: Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Mon December 04, 2017 9:52 pm 
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Bi_3 wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
Would you say it's worse that an animal like a beluga whale be in a tank?

yes


I tend to think the same (despite is feeling like privilege flexing). Something in me just says "people need nature", probably my boomer-lefist upbringing.

people don't have a fundamental right to interact with any animal you can feasibly capture and bring to the masses

there are plenty of opportunities to interact with nature and animals that don't involve putting whales in tanks

go to a national park, visit a farm, etc, etc


This presumes economic ability. Perhaps whale was a bad example... sting ray?

everything presumes economic ability, have you seen how much it is to get inside a good aquarium these days?


also, i don't think a blanket answer exists for all animals here. whales shouldn't be in tanks, elephants shouldn't be in cages, stingrays might be another story


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 Post subject: Re: Zoos: Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Mon December 04, 2017 10:15 pm 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
Would you say it's worse that an animal like a beluga whale be in a tank?

yes


I tend to think the same (despite is feeling like privilege flexing). Something in me just says "people need nature", probably my boomer-lefist upbringing.

people don't have a fundamental right to interact with any animal you can feasibly capture and bring to the masses

there are plenty of opportunities to interact with nature and animals that don't involve putting whales in tanks

go to a national park, visit a farm, etc, etc


This presumes economic ability. Perhaps whale was a bad example... sting ray?

everything presumes economic ability, have you seen how much it is to get inside a good aquarium these days?


also, i don't think a blanket answer exists for all animals here. whales shouldn't be in tanks, elephants shouldn't be in cages, stingrays might be another story

Do bigger things have more value than smaller things?

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 Post subject: Re: Zoos: Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Mon December 04, 2017 10:17 pm 
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Kaius wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
Would you say it's worse that an animal like a beluga whale be in a tank?

yes


I tend to think the same (despite is feeling like privilege flexing). Something in me just says "people need nature", probably my boomer-lefist upbringing.

people don't have a fundamental right to interact with any animal you can feasibly capture and bring to the masses

there are plenty of opportunities to interact with nature and animals that don't involve putting whales in tanks

go to a national park, visit a farm, etc, etc


This presumes economic ability. Perhaps whale was a bad example... sting ray?

everything presumes economic ability, have you seen how much it is to get inside a good aquarium these days?


also, i don't think a blanket answer exists for all animals here. whales shouldn't be in tanks, elephants shouldn't be in cages, stingrays might be another story

Do bigger things have more value than smaller things?

No but I think more intellectually advanced creatures have a higher capacity for suffering and that has to be taken into account. Elephants mourn their dead, do stingrays?


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 Post subject: Re: Zoos: Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Mon December 04, 2017 10:17 pm 
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Kaius wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
Bi_3 wrote:
Would you say it's worse that an animal like a beluga whale be in a tank?

yes


I tend to think the same (despite is feeling like privilege flexing). Something in me just says "people need nature", probably my boomer-lefist upbringing.

people don't have a fundamental right to interact with any animal you can feasibly capture and bring to the masses

there are plenty of opportunities to interact with nature and animals that don't involve putting whales in tanks

go to a national park, visit a farm, etc, etc


This presumes economic ability. Perhaps whale was a bad example... sting ray?

everything presumes economic ability, have you seen how much it is to get inside a good aquarium these days?


also, i don't think a blanket answer exists for all animals here. whales shouldn't be in tanks, elephants shouldn't be in cages, stingrays might be another story

Do bigger things have more value than smaller things?

Nobody's using mosquitos encased in amber to clone fucking mosquitos mate

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 Post subject: Re: Zoos: Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Mon December 04, 2017 10:17 pm 
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This must be how Asher felt in the vegan thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Zoos: Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Mon December 04, 2017 10:21 pm 
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what if we domesticated whales

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 Post subject: Re: Zoos: Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Mon December 04, 2017 10:21 pm 
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I don't doubt that zoos and aquariums for that matter are aware of and actively contributing to making conditions better for any animals, and hooray for that, but ultimately, zoos exist as a way to give people a way to look at them or whatevs... This is rather anachronistic isn't it? Also, re:endangered species and born in captivity animals... It's a lousy stop gap measure to me. It's just more of the same ole human behavior of destroy and kill, but build a zoo to house the refugees. I dunno, i haven't been to a proper zoo in years, and i always enjoyed the boston aquarium but it's not a good replacement for leaving animals alone to live in peace, regardless of the fact that asher made similar arguments about being vegan.

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 Post subject: Re: Zoos: Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Mon December 04, 2017 10:28 pm 
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Green Habit wrote:
I say it depends on each animal we're talking about. Animals that can be kept reasonably well in captivity strike me as a positive, particularly for kids (as mentioned above) that may marvel at nature's wonders and grow up to give nature its due respect. Animals where captivity is unreasonable should not be kept in zoos.

Here's an argument that resonates with me. Providing inspiration for the veterinarians, zoologists, wildlife researchers and conservationists of the future.

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 Post subject: Re: Zoos: Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Mon December 04, 2017 10:30 pm 
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I personally find them to be rather depressing but i see value in them for 1) educational purposes and 2) perhaps rehabilitating certain species (endangered,what have you, etc)

Whales, dolphins, etc should never be captive.


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 Post subject: Re: Zoos: Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Mon December 04, 2017 10:32 pm 
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i don't think a lot of these animals are "left alone to live in peace".

i feel like the zoo-opponents must think zoo directors are like Ronny Cox inspired billionaire sociopaths bent on cornering the animal confinement market

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 Post subject: Re: Zoos: Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Mon December 04, 2017 10:32 pm 
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to be fair, i'm super conflicted on this issue


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