Wed October 11, 2017 1:45 pm
McParadigm wrote:Bi_3 wrote:McParadigm wrote:Bi_3 wrote:B wrote:Mike Ditka, "There has been no oppression in the last 100 years that I know of,” Ditka said. “Now maybe I’m not watching it as carefully as other people. I think the opportunity is there for everybody — race, religion, creed, color, nationality. If you want to work, if you want to try, if you want to put effort in, you can accomplish anything.”
Nothing bad has happened since 1917.
1917.
If more protests focused on Jim Crow, where there is indisputable evidence of of systemic and legally enforced racism against people who are walking on the streets today, IMO we would get a lot closer to a point where most people can empathize with the lasting effect of the history of black America.
This is the most depressing sentence I think I've ever read.
Sure, but do you agree or disagree?
I believe that the majority of white Americans who currently feel no or minimal empathy for people of any particular color are not now, or ever going to be, an argument, observation, or a strategy away from grasping at that basic human understanding.
Wed October 11, 2017 1:46 pm
Wed October 11, 2017 1:57 pm
McParadigm wrote:Bi_3 wrote:McParadigm wrote:Bi_3 wrote:B wrote:Mike Ditka, "There has been no oppression in the last 100 years that I know of,” Ditka said. “Now maybe I’m not watching it as carefully as other people. I think the opportunity is there for everybody — race, religion, creed, color, nationality. If you want to work, if you want to try, if you want to put effort in, you can accomplish anything.”
Nothing bad has happened since 1917.
1917.
If more protests focused on Jim Crow, where there is indisputable evidence of of systemic and legally enforced racism against people who are walking on the streets today, IMO we would get a lot closer to a point where most people can empathize with the lasting effect of the history of black America.
This is the most depressing sentence I think I've ever read.
Sure, but do you agree or disagree?
I believe that the majority of white Americans who currently feel no or minimal empathy for people of any particular color are not now, or ever going to be, an argument, observation, or a strategy away from grasping at that basic human understanding.
Wed October 11, 2017 2:04 pm
When IS the appropriate time to talk about injustice?
Wed October 11, 2017 2:09 pm
McParadigm wrote:When IS the appropriate time to talk about injustice?
Surely the greatest win deep tissue conservatism ever had was ingraining America with language about "appropriate times" to talk about hard change...which then provides an eternal justification for not talking about it now.
Wed October 11, 2017 2:23 pm
Bi_3 wrote:McParadigm wrote:Bi_3 wrote:McParadigm wrote:Bi_3 wrote:B wrote:Mike Ditka, "There has been no oppression in the last 100 years that I know of,” Ditka said. “Now maybe I’m not watching it as carefully as other people. I think the opportunity is there for everybody — race, religion, creed, color, nationality. If you want to work, if you want to try, if you want to put effort in, you can accomplish anything.”
Nothing bad has happened since 1917.
1917.
If more protests focused on Jim Crow, where there is indisputable evidence of of systemic and legally enforced racism against people who are walking on the streets today, IMO we would get a lot closer to a point where most people can empathize with the lasting effect of the history of black America.
This is the most depressing sentence I think I've ever read.
Sure, but do you agree or disagree?
I believe that the majority of white Americans who currently feel no or minimal empathy for people of any particular color are not now, or ever going to be, an argument, observation, or a strategy away from grasping at that basic human understanding.
I don't necessarily disagree with that, but I believe a lot of that is because there are easily used rationalizations that can be used to absolve oneself of having to think about it, stuff like "slavery was 150 years ago". You can't look a slave in the face. You can't look the child of a slave in the face. It's basically ancient history to modern minds. Jim Crow presents a different , more practical path to reach people because you can put those people on TV. You can show how those laws (for example shorting payments to black soldiers in 20th century wars) lead to outcomes in individuals that humans can relate to in today's society and opening that door to empathy via human connection is key. Don't try to solve it all at once. Don't blame. FFS sake don't break or burn anything. Just try to get people to understand that even though legal equality exists, it's not over for people you may see or talk to everyday.
Edit: Not telling activists how to act, just explaining an option for reaching people whose group I am member of.
Wed October 11, 2017 2:30 pm
Wed October 11, 2017 2:35 pm
Wed October 11, 2017 3:20 pm
McParadigm wrote:I understand the want to find an argument that will resonate, which I feel is your point. I just don't believe that arguments are ever more powerful than existing bias. It's why we're still cleansing ourselves of racial and gender discrimination 50+ years after the era we half-consider the modern enlightenment of equal society.
Wed October 11, 2017 3:51 pm
Bi_3 wrote:McParadigm wrote:I understand the want to find an argument that will resonate, which I feel is your point. I just don't believe that arguments are ever more powerful than existing bias. It's why we're still cleansing ourselves of racial and gender discrimination 50+ years after the era we half-consider the modern enlightenment of equal society.
Yeah, that was where I was going with that. If today's method has lead us to a Trump presidency, maybe it's time to reconsider the approach. And so there is no confusion, I disagree with Colin K. on most of his statements in this matter, but he and all the other players who 'take a knee' have every right to do so. The owners have every right to fire for doing it, but the peaceful protests like that are a far more effective way to start the long overdue dialogue on 'how do we make America work for everyone?'.
But I actually don't agree on your biases statement. It's certainly hard to overcome them, but for example if you look at religion in America, especially in our generation, you can see how people were able to recognize the good and bad elements of the various faiths adapt even when most of us were raised with parents who went to church. It's not universal of course, but it's a start.
Wed October 11, 2017 11:36 pm
Thu October 12, 2017 2:19 am
Thu October 12, 2017 2:26 am
Fri October 13, 2017 3:22 am
philpritchard wrote:Wait, people have ACTUALLY stopped watching the NFL? My god people are stupid.
Fri October 13, 2017 3:30 am
Fri October 13, 2017 3:33 am
Fri October 13, 2017 5:05 am
cutuphalfdead wrote:Maybe the police should just stop murdering* black people and then everyone can watch football again.
Fri October 13, 2017 6:48 am
Fri October 13, 2017 9:19 am
Fri October 13, 2017 12:16 pm
Orpheus wrote:I'm sorry, but the argument that people who aren't swayed by slavery will find themselves magically empathetic to the Jim Crow era seems inherently ridiculous to me. If anything our inability to get past even overt racism in an age when we are starting to think of hyperloops and space tourism is kind of a stunning indictment of our species.