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 Post subject: Big Ten Basketball Thread (Includes Weekly Power Rankings!)
PostPosted: Mon January 07, 2013 4:57 am 
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As a big college basketball fan, I wanted to start a discussion about the strongest basketball conference in all of the land. The Big 10 (or "B1G" as it likes to be called). My hope is that we can each take the angle of writing from one of the schools perspectives. Maybe you could give a little history of your choice school's successes (or lack thereof) and then talk about where they are now. Hopefully this will lead to some fun game threads and discussions through what promises to be a hell of a Big 10 season.

I'll get us started...

I am a resident of Minnesota and have had the often misfortune of being a fan of the Minnesota Golden Gophers. When I was young there were some fun teams for me to cheer for. In 1982 (when I was two years old) the Gophers won the Big 10 but lost in the second round of the NCAAs. There was a Sweet 16 appearance in 1989, followed by an Elite 8 showing in 1990. In 1997 there was a magical 31-4 season that won the Big 10 and finished in a Final Four appearance (this season was ultimately stricken from the record books because of an academic fraud scandal). Since 1997, MN has had only one season with a winning conference record (they were only 9-7 in that season) and have only managed to make the NCAA Tournament four times, each appearance resulting in a first round exit. So to say the least, it's been quite a while since a I have had much to cheer about.

For the first time in a long time, 2013 looks like it could actually be a fun year to be a Gophers fan.

The Gophers are currently ranked #9 in the AP poll (as of Dec. 31, 2012) and won two big home games this week to open the Big 10 Season. First they knocked off #18 Michigan State 76-63 on New Years Eve. Michigan State has owned the Gophers for years and this was a big step in the right direction for my club. They followed up that win by defeating Northwestern 69-51 on Sunday night (Jan. 6, 2013). The new AP rankings come out tomorrow and the Gophers should be moving up. During the past week #8 Ohio State lost to #11 Illinois, and #5 Indiana barely edged out unranked Iowa 69-65. I don't expect to see Indiana fall enough (if at all) after their narrow road victory for Minnesota to jump up more then one spot in the new AP rankings. The Gophers should expect to pass Ohio State and move into the #8 position.

This coming week is as big as it could be for early conference games. First, Minnesota will travel to #11 Illinois. As mentioned earlier, Illinois beat Ohio State this week, but in their Big 10 opener the Fighting Illini put up a stinker at Purdue in a 68-61 loss. The result of this loss should see Illinois falling a bit in the AP poll but the loss also clearly motivated them to step up on their home court against Ohio State in their following game - a decisive 74-55 victory. Minnesota will play at Illinois on Wednesday night and can expect Illinois to be hungry to prove that the win over Ohio State was the rule and the loss at Purdue was the exception.

Game two in this week's schedule could be even bigger. Minnesota will travel to #5 Indiana on Saturday. Indiana began this season as the #1 ranked team in the country and held that position until losing to Butler by two points in an overtime thriller on December 15th. If Minnesota is able to get by Illinois on Wednesday, the game against Indiana would be the biggest conference game for the Gophers since Tubby Smith became head coach (and probably the biggest since the 1997 season). A win to close the week against Indiana could potentially vault the Gophers into a top 5 ranking, and could add a lot of fuel to the belief that they could actually have a shot at a Big 10 championship in 2013.

With such large possibilities for achievement this week also comes the burden of the equal and opposite reaction that would take place if the Gophers were to drop their first two conference road games. A very exciting and promising promising start to the season would be replaced with the realization that the Gophers would be sitting at .500 in the Big 10 and facing an uphill battle to try to compete for not only a conference title, but a decent seed in the NCAA Tournament.

Minnesota is healthy and seemingly playing at their highest level for the first time in years. With so much at stake this week the Gophers need to step up and make a big statement. The Big 10 is likely the strongest basketball conference in America and two losses would be a major set back. Two wins would be huge. At a minimum they really need to get at least one win and avoid falling too far behind #2 Michigan.

Go Gophers!


Last edited by PHATJ on Mon January 14, 2013 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Big 10 Basketball
PostPosted: Mon January 07, 2013 6:35 am 
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Michigan looks top class this year. I've followed them loosely since childhood, when the Fab Five wore those shorts. To a young guy like me, they seemed pretty cool at the time. As we all know, the cheating and scandal of the early and mid 90's led to some pretty lean years for the Wolverines.

I'd be happy to continue to explain to you guys why this team is the best in the BIG this year in this thread. Trey Burke, balanced offense, some big bodies that can contribute in the paint. Three point shooting is what really makes a Beilien offense dangerous, and it looks like he finally has the personnel to make a serious championship run.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Big 10 Basketball
PostPosted: Mon January 07, 2013 2:05 pm 
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The conference is sickeningly good this year. tOSU could end up 6th and it wouldn't surprise me. (Ok, it would surprise me a little bit. I wish they had another reliable guy who could put some points on the board.)

Penn St and Nebraska are really the only sure wins for the rest of the league. Northwestern and Purdue aren't great but will win some games. I'd rank the rest as follows:

1. Indiana (Still believe they're the best in the conference)
2. Michigan (Can't put them #1 on principle)
3. Minnesota
4. Illinois
5. Michigan St
6. Ohio State (so sour on them after Saturday's game)
7. Wisconsin
8. Iowa

If Iowa can step up on the road in conference they can give it a run at making the tournament.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Big 10 Basketball
PostPosted: Mon January 07, 2013 2:43 pm 
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Thanks for the responses guys! That's exactly the kind of stuff I was hoping to see!

As far as grading out the conference goes, I have to put Michigan at number one. Staying undefeated means something. Actually it means a lot. The only hesitation I have is that Michigan hasn't faced the strongest of competition as of yet. Their only game against a ranked opponent came on November 27th against then #18 NC State. Michigan won that home game by seven points. The schedule finally gets a bit tougher on January 13th against OSU when Michigan starts a stretch of five out of seven games against ranked opponents.

Indiana started the season at #1 and for the most part have looked strong ever since. Their only loss came in OT vs. Butler (granted Butler was unranked at the time, but have since climbed to #17 in the AP poll). The real negative of that loss was that it came at home. Cody Zeller and Victor Oladipo are first team all conference type players (if not better). Tom Crean has done a masterful job in turning around one of the nation's most storied basketball programs. I expect Indiana to be a top ten team all season and they are clearly one of the easy favorites for the Big 10 season title.

Minnesota's only loss this season was to Duke (#5 at the time, currently #1) on a neutral court . No shame in that. Quality wins this year include a 84-75 victory over #19 Memphis, and most recently a 76-63 win over #18 Michigan State. The rest of Minnesota's schedule is full of blowout type wins. This week will be huge for Tubby Smith's team. The Gophers travel to #11 Illinois on Wednesday and then #5 Indiana on Saturday.

Michigan State has Tom Izzo and years of success to fall back on. Guard play is a strength (which always bodes well in college basketball). Keith Appling is a leader and a scorer; two things good teams have in their starting point guard. I expect this team to be strong all year, if not quite a Big 10 title contender.

Ohio State has three losses this season, but only one (and a half) that I'd find concerning. Their first blemish came against Duke (#2 at the time, #1 now) in a toughly fought five point loss at Cameron Indoor Arena. I have no problem with that. The next defeat came at the hands of #9 Kansas. This one raised a bit of an eyebrow because it came on Bucky's home floor and Ohio State lost by eight points. That being said, Kansas is Kansas and I'm willing to give OSU a hesitant pass for that one too. The third loss happened this week and it was ugly. OSU went to #11 Illinois and laid an egg, losing by 19. This came just days after Illinois had been beaten by Purdue. This isn't a good sign at all for OSU. All of their wins this season have come against lesser competition while they have also lost to every ranked team they have played.

Illinois is an interesting team. They are somewhat puzzling, actually. After starting out 12-0 they are 2-2 in their last four games. One of those two wins was a nail-biter against a poor Auburn team (winning 81-79), the other being and absolute drubbing of #8 Ohio State. Their two losses were uninspiring as well. Losing by nine to #12 Missouri and by seven to Purdue. So the question remains: Which Illinois team is the real Illinois team? Games this week against #9 Minnesota and at Wisconsin should clear this up a bit.

All season long I have been expecting Wisconsin to start playing better and to be what they usually are: a very solid team on both ends of the floor that is nearly unbeatable at home, and is always in contention come March. I'm starting to think that this season may actually be different for Bo Ryan and the Badgers. They have opened the conference schedule 2-0 but neither of those wins inspire much confidence. Beating Penn State and Nebraska in an ugly "grind it out" fashion leaves something to be desired. The schedule certainly get a lot tougher over the next several weeks with nine of their next 11 games coming against ranked teams.

I believe Iowa is a vastly improved team. The Big Ten season couldn't have started out tougher for the Hawkeyes, with their first two games coming against Indiana (whom they nearly beat) and Michigan. Iowa probably won't win more then six conference games, but they won't always be an easy win for opponents either. The Hawkeyes are likely a year or two away from making a serious run at the NCAA tournament, but there seems to finally be some evidence of the program returning to respectability.

Northwestern has been decimated by injuries all year. Reggie Hern, NW's best player just missed a couple games with injury and looked far from 100% in his first game back against Minnesota on Sunday night. I expect the Wildcat's to play solid defense and confuse and slow down some teams with their 1-3-1 zone. If the 3-pointers are falling , NW could give some strong opponents fits and even pull of a big upset this season.

Purdue seems to be a pretty weak team this season as evidenced by losses to Bucknell, Oregon State, Xavier and Eastern Michigan (amongst others). That being said, they have also shown the ability to beat a quality opponent on their home floor. The 68-61 win over #11 Illinois this week showed that ability. This will likely be the biggest win Purdue is fortunate enough to get in 2013. But it also shows the Big 10's best teams that they cannot assume an easy victory when they travel to Mackey Arena to face Matt Painter's Boilermakers.

Penn State followed by Nebraska round out the bottom of the conference. Both these clubs will struggle to beat anyone other then each other during the conference schedule. Three or Four conference wins should be considered am accomplishment for either team, especially considering the level of talent the Big 10 boasts this year.


My Big 10 Rankings (As of Jan. 7, 2013.)

1. Michigan
2. Indiana
3. Minnesota
4. Michigan State
5. Illinois
6. Ohio State
7. Wisconsin
8. Iowa
9. Purdue
10. Northwestern
11. Penn State
12. Nebraska

Notes: Illinois and Ohio State are nearly interchangeable through this point in the season. The edge goes to Illinois based on their win over Ohio State. I feel much the same about Wisconsin and Iowa, and Purdue and Northwestern. Wisconsin gets the nod over Iowa based on the 2-0 conference start opposed to Iowa's 0-2 start. Likewise, Purdue gets the nod over Northwestern based on their win over Illinois.


Last edited by PHATJ on Mon January 07, 2013 6:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Big 10 Basketball
PostPosted: Mon January 07, 2013 3:04 pm 
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The cool thing about the Michigan basketball team is that not only are they good... they're actually fun to watch.

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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Big 10 Basketball
PostPosted: Mon January 07, 2013 5:12 pm 
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I'm anxious to see the new polls today.

Btw, I think it would be kind of cool to do our own poll around here every week. If we get enough people regularly checking out this thread and posting in here I think we should do a weekly RM poll. We could keep it to just a Big 10 power rankings or we could do a full national style poll. Your thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Big 10 Basketball
PostPosted: Mon January 07, 2013 6:05 pm 
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1A. Indiana
1B. Michigan (until they win a meangingful conference game on the road, I'm not yet ready to annoint them)
3. Ohio State (emblematic of every helter-skelter team in the conference -- looks different every night it plays)
4. Illinois (see OSU)
5. Michigan State (I would rank them lower, but I see them starting conference play at 5-1)
6. Minnesota (sorry MN, but in your only true barometer game (Duke), you got throttled)
7. Wisconsin (I put them here by default)
8. Iowa (their 2 B10 losses sure were ugly)
9. Purdue (I wouldn't be surprised to see them win 80% of their conference home games, and lose 90% of their away games)
10. Northwestern (tough when you're best player is out)
11. Penn State (meh)
12. Nebraska (terrible)


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Big 10 Basketball
PostPosted: Mon January 07, 2013 6:15 pm 
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New AP poll just released. Big 10 teams include:

#2 Michigan
#5 Indiana
#8 Minnesota
#12 Illinois
#15 Ohio State
#22 Michigan State


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Big 10 Basketball
PostPosted: Mon January 07, 2013 6:24 pm 
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Chris_H_2 wrote:
1A. Indiana
1B. Michigan (until they win a meangingful conference game on the road, I'm not yet ready to annoint them)
3. Ohio State (emblematic of every helter-skelter team in the conference -- looks different every night it plays)
4. Illinois (see OSU)
5. Michigan State (I would rank them lower, but I see them starting conference play at 5-1)
6. Minnesota (sorry MN, but in your only true barometer game (Duke), you got throttled)
7. Wisconsin (I put them here by default)
8. Iowa (their 2 B10 losses sure were ugly)
9. Purdue (I wouldn't be surprised to see them win 80% of their conference home games, and lose 90% of their away games)
10. Northwestern (tough when you're best player is out)
11. Penn State (meh)
12. Nebraska (terrible)


I think you are greatly over rating OSU and greatly under rating MINN. Also, MINN has already beaten MICH ST, which you have rated one spot ahead of them. Same for ILL and OSU. I don't see your logic in either of those. You say MINN lost their "only true barometer" when they lost to Duke, but you fail to acknowledge that they are 2-1 against ranked teams this season. Yet you give OSU the #3 position when it is 0-3 against ranked teams and they have had no other games against anybody that could not be described as a cupcake. Where's your logic there?

Sorry to sound harsh there... I am glad to read your comments and have your participation in this thread. The more the merrier!


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Big 10 Basketball
PostPosted: Mon January 07, 2013 7:04 pm 
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PHATJ wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:
1A. Indiana
1B. Michigan (until they win a meangingful conference game on the road, I'm not yet ready to annoint them)
3. Ohio State (emblematic of every helter-skelter team in the conference -- looks different every night it plays)
4. Illinois (see OSU)
5. Michigan State (I would rank them lower, but I see them starting conference play at 5-1)
6. Minnesota (sorry MN, but in your only true barometer game (Duke), you got throttled)
7. Wisconsin (I put them here by default)
8. Iowa (their 2 B10 losses sure were ugly)
9. Purdue (I wouldn't be surprised to see them win 80% of their conference home games, and lose 90% of their away games)
10. Northwestern (tough when you're best player is out)
11. Penn State (meh)
12. Nebraska (terrible)


I think you are greatly over rating OSU and greatly under rating MINN. Also, MINN has already beaten MICH ST, which you have rated one spot ahead of them. Same for ILL and OSU. I don't see your logic in either of those. You say MINN lost their "only true barometer" when they lost to Duke, but you fail to acknowledge that they are 2-1 against ranked teams this season. Yet you give OSU the #3 position when it is 0-3 against ranked teams and they have had no other games against anybody that could not be described as a cupcake. Where's your logic there?

Sorry to sound harsh there... I am glad to read your comments and have your participation in this thread. The more the merrier!


For starters, rankings in college basketball are meaningless. But if you want to go by them, OSU has lost to the No. 1 team, the No. 6 team, and the No. 12 team in the country (according today's rankings). MN has beat the No. 22 team, and lost to the No. 1 team. You can't really pull anything meaningful out of that. Their common ranked opponent, Duke, beat them both in Cameron, but were at least given a game by OSU.

I "rank" teams based on who I would think would win in a head-to-head match up on a neutral floor. Yes, MN beat MSU, but it was at home and they didn't pull away until 6 mins to go with MSU in foul trouble. If they play in Indy, I think MSU wins. Plus, MN has a tendency to start their seasons strongly only to sink toward the middle. I'm not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt yet.

There's nothing scientific to this -- it's just a gut feeling.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Big 10 Basketball
PostPosted: Mon January 07, 2013 7:11 pm 
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Chris_H_2 wrote:
PHATJ wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:
1A. Indiana
1B. Michigan (until they win a meangingful conference game on the road, I'm not yet ready to annoint them)
3. Ohio State (emblematic of every helter-skelter team in the conference -- looks different every night it plays)
4. Illinois (see OSU)
5. Michigan State (I would rank them lower, but I see them starting conference play at 5-1)
6. Minnesota (sorry MN, but in your only true barometer game (Duke), you got throttled)
7. Wisconsin (I put them here by default)
8. Iowa (their 2 B10 losses sure were ugly)
9. Purdue (I wouldn't be surprised to see them win 80% of their conference home games, and lose 90% of their away games)
10. Northwestern (tough when you're best player is out)
11. Penn State (meh)
12. Nebraska (terrible)


I think you are greatly over rating OSU and greatly under rating MINN. Also, MINN has already beaten MICH ST, which you have rated one spot ahead of them. Same for ILL and OSU. I don't see your logic in either of those. You say MINN lost their "only true barometer" when they lost to Duke, but you fail to acknowledge that they are 2-1 against ranked teams this season. Yet you give OSU the #3 position when it is 0-3 against ranked teams and they have had no other games against anybody that could not be described as a cupcake. Where's your logic there?

Sorry to sound harsh there... I am glad to read your comments and have your participation in this thread. The more the merrier!


For starters, rankings in college basketball are meaningless. But if you want to go by them, OSU has lost to the No. 1 team, the No. 6 team, and the No. 12 team in the country (according today's rankings). MN has beat the No. 22 team, and lost to the No. 1 team. You can't really pull anything meaningful out of that. Their common ranked opponent, Duke, beat them both in Cameron, but were at least given a game by OSU.

I "rank" teams based on who I would think would win in a head-to-head match up on a neutral floor. Yes, MN beat MSU, but it was at home and they didn't pull away until 6 mins to go with MSU in foul trouble. If they play in Indy, I think MSU wins. Plus, MN has a tendency to start their seasons strongly only to sink toward the middle. I'm not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt yet.

There's nothing scientific to this -- it's just a gut feeling.


Fair enough. Last point on OSU/MN: if you are today's rankings MN has one win against a ranked opponent and OSU has none. If you are going by if the team was ranked when the game was played, MN has two wins against ranked opponents and OSU still has none. I get what you are saying about just "going by the gut", and that's totally valid. This week will say a lot (good or bad) about MN. Two big road games at Illinois and Indiana.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Big 10 Basketball
PostPosted: Mon January 07, 2013 7:15 pm 
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PHATJ wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:
PHATJ wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:
1A. Indiana
1B. Michigan (until they win a meangingful conference game on the road, I'm not yet ready to annoint them)
3. Ohio State (emblematic of every helter-skelter team in the conference -- looks different every night it plays)
4. Illinois (see OSU)
5. Michigan State (I would rank them lower, but I see them starting conference play at 5-1)
6. Minnesota (sorry MN, but in your only true barometer game (Duke), you got throttled)
7. Wisconsin (I put them here by default)
8. Iowa (their 2 B10 losses sure were ugly)
9. Purdue (I wouldn't be surprised to see them win 80% of their conference home games, and lose 90% of their away games)
10. Northwestern (tough when you're best player is out)
11. Penn State (meh)
12. Nebraska (terrible)


I think you are greatly over rating OSU and greatly under rating MINN. Also, MINN has already beaten MICH ST, which you have rated one spot ahead of them. Same for ILL and OSU. I don't see your logic in either of those. You say MINN lost their "only true barometer" when they lost to Duke, but you fail to acknowledge that they are 2-1 against ranked teams this season. Yet you give OSU the #3 position when it is 0-3 against ranked teams and they have had no other games against anybody that could not be described as a cupcake. Where's your logic there?

Sorry to sound harsh there... I am glad to read your comments and have your participation in this thread. The more the merrier!


For starters, rankings in college basketball are meaningless. But if you want to go by them, OSU has lost to the No. 1 team, the No. 6 team, and the No. 12 team in the country (according today's rankings). MN has beat the No. 22 team, and lost to the No. 1 team. You can't really pull anything meaningful out of that. Their common ranked opponent, Duke, beat them both in Cameron, but were at least given a game by OSU.

I "rank" teams based on who I would think would win in a head-to-head match up on a neutral floor. Yes, MN beat MSU, but it was at home and they didn't pull away until 6 mins to go with MSU in foul trouble. If they play in Indy, I think MSU wins. Plus, MN has a tendency to start their seasons strongly only to sink toward the middle. I'm not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt yet.

There's nothing scientific to this -- it's just a gut feeling.


Fair enough. Last point on OSU/MN: if you are today's rankings MN has one win against a ranked opponent and OSU has none. If you are going by if the team was ranked when the game was played, MN has two wins against ranked opponents and OSU still has none. I get what you are saying about just "going by the gut", and that's totally valid. This week will say a lot (good or bad) about MN. Two big road games at Illinois and Indiana.


Michigan plays at OSU on Sunday as well. It's their first true road test (their big road wins came on neutral floors). As a Wolverine, I would love for nothing else than for me to be proved wrong on OSU.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Big 10 Basketball
PostPosted: Mon January 07, 2013 8:27 pm 
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Quote:
Indiana started the season at #1 and for the most part have looked strong ever since. Their only loss came in OT vs. Butler (granted Butler was unranked at the time, but have since climbed to #17 in the AP poll). The real negative of that loss was that it came at home


Actually that loss was on a neutral court in Indianapolis.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Big 10 Basketball
PostPosted: Mon January 07, 2013 8:38 pm 
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Joesanity wrote:
Quote:
Indiana started the season at #1 and for the most part have looked strong ever since. Their only loss came in OT vs. Butler (granted Butler was unranked at the time, but have since climbed to #17 in the AP poll). The real negative of that loss was that it came at home


Actually that loss was on a neutral court in Indianapolis.


You're right. My bad on that. My memory isn't what it once was.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Big 10 Basketball
PostPosted: Tue January 08, 2013 3:41 pm 
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Noticed that UM picked up one extra #1 vote in this week's poll. Pretty random considering Duke didn't really do anything to scare anyone of and Michigan didn't do anything than what should be expected of them.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Big 10 Basketball
PostPosted: Tue January 08, 2013 4:09 pm 
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mray10 wrote:
Noticed that UM picked up one extra #1 vote in this week's poll. Pretty random considering Duke didn't really do anything to scare anyone of and Michigan didn't do anything than what should be expected of them.


That is kind of strange. :?


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Big 10 Basketball
PostPosted: Tue January 08, 2013 4:09 pm 
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Indiana got a predictable big win over Penn State last night.

Tuesday nights schedule features Ohio State at Purdue. What is the percent chance that Ohio State falls into the same trap that Illinois did last week and is unable to take down Purdue tonight? 25%? 30%? I'm not sure. But if it happens people will be forced to recognize that OSU was vastly over rated to start the season. This is a must win for the Buckeye's.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Big 10 Basketball
PostPosted: Tue January 08, 2013 4:30 pm 
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PHATJ wrote:
Indiana got a predictable big win over Penn State last night.

Tuesday nights schedule features Ohio State at Purdue. What is the percent chance that Ohio State falls into the same trap that Illinois did last week and is unable to take down Purdue tonight? 25%? 30%? I'm not sure. But if it happens people will be forced to recognize that OSU was vastly over rated to start the season. This is a must win for the Buckeye's.


I think Purdue has about a 50/50 chance of beating OSU. But I'm not ready to put the nail in the OSU coffin yet. It's really hard to win on the road during conference play, and we'll see our fair share of upsets throughout the season.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Big 10 Basketball
PostPosted: Tue January 08, 2013 7:35 pm 
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I think after the embarrassment on Saturday tOSU will come out more focused and take this one.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Big 10 Basketball
PostPosted: Tue January 08, 2013 8:50 pm 
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Joesanity wrote:
I think after the embarrassment on Saturday tOSU will come out more focused and take this one.


I like that little "t" you throw in there before OSU. LOL. I think Ohio State wins tonight too.


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