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 Post subject: Re: The Work-Out Thread
PostPosted: Wed September 05, 2018 8:29 pm 
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Future Drummer
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4/5 wrote:
--- wrote:
4/5 wrote:
My conditioning's gotten a lot better over the last six weeks or so and I've almost gotten my body fat back down to the "athlete" category, but on the other hand my strength has taken a nosedive. Just a couple more weeks of cutting. I'm looking forward to getting back to maintenance level calories and getting this strength back.

I really wish I had access to a strongman's yoke and prowler for conditioning.

I'm not sure we have the same goals, but I'm loving a 30/~10 bulk/cut split. I lift for a full month, and then spend around ten days (sometimes two full weeks) swimming as intensely as I can to cut. That usually amounts to eight-to-ten sessions of 1500-2000m, mostly in 50m or 100m sprints. Swimming also has the benefit of working a lot of smaller muscles that get neglected in most lifting programs.

Yeah I'd definitely like to incorporate more swimming for conditioning. My main goal has been strength. I finally decided I had put on too much weight in pursuit of that goal so i had to correct it. Thankfully cutting has proven to be as easy for me as I always thought it would be. My inner ectomorph has reasserted its dominance in the last 6 weeks or so.

My biggest problem was that because it's tough for me to put on mass I essentially stopped all cardio and conditioning out of fear of cannibalizing potential gains. This was very foolish, but now I think I have figured out how to maintain a good balance going forward: eat pretty well, but not as strictly as I'm eating right now, lift heavy 4x a week with light cardio after, and do conditioning work twice a week.

How would you describe eating "pretty well?" What post-lifting cardio and conditioning work do you do?


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 Post subject: Re: The Work-Out Thread
PostPosted: Thu September 06, 2018 11:13 pm 
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--- wrote:
How would you describe eating "pretty well?" What post-lifting cardio and conditioning work do you do?

For me eating "pretty well" means that the vast majority of what I'm eating isn't junk or overly sugary but that I'll feel no guilt eating some junk. If I want pizza on a Saturday I'll have it. Right now I'm not drinking any alcohol, so I'll drink a little bit if I want to. If I want some Ruffles potato chips I'll have them too. I have a pretty low brow palette, so eating pretty well means indulging that from time to time. If I'm not actively bulking I basically can't put on weight no matter how poorly I eat, so I'm not too worried about not eating perfectly once I switch to maintenance caloric intake.

Post-lifting cardio is super basic. I either row or ride a bike at the gym. Sometimes intervals, sometimes steady state. Nothing exciting. Conditioning: circuit work with stuff like hang cleans, deadlifts, push jerks, kettlebell swings, box jumps, farmer's walks, ropes. I basically pick 3 or 4 of those and put them in a circuit, rest about 2 mins after the circuit and repeat 3-5 times. Once it stops being soul-destroyingly hot and humid I'm going to start running sprints at a track as part of my conditioning.

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"I want to see the whole picture--as nearly as I can. I don't want to put on the blinders of 'good and bad,' and limit my vision."-- In Dubious Battle



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 Post subject: Re: The Work-Out Thread
PostPosted: Fri September 07, 2018 5:29 pm 
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What's the value of doing cardio after lifting?


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 Post subject: Re: The Work-Out Thread
PostPosted: Fri September 07, 2018 8:42 pm 
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--- wrote:
What's the value of doing cardio after lifting?

How long have you been trolling me?

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"I want to see the whole picture--as nearly as I can. I don't want to put on the blinders of 'good and bad,' and limit my vision."-- In Dubious Battle



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 Post subject: Re: The Work-Out Thread
PostPosted: Fri September 07, 2018 9:02 pm 
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4/5 wrote:
--- wrote:
What's the value of doing cardio after lifting?

How long have you been trolling me?

:?

I get doing conditioning stuff on recovery or non-lifting days. I do not understand the value of cardio immediately after lifting on the same day. If your goal is to add strength - requiring bulking - what is the value of basically cutting immediately after? You're either operating at a surplus for gains, or operating at a deficit for conditioning. It's basically impossible to achieve the benefits of both on the same day, no?


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 Post subject: Re: The Work-Out Thread
PostPosted: Fri September 07, 2018 10:20 pm 
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--- wrote:
4/5 wrote:
--- wrote:
What's the value of doing cardio after lifting?

How long have you been trolling me?

:?

I get doing conditioning stuff on recovery or non-lifting days. I do not understand the value of cardio immediately after lifting on the same day. If your goal is to add strength - requiring bulking - what is the value of basically cutting immediately after? You're either operating at a surplus for gains, or operating at a deficit for conditioning. It's basically impossible to achieve the benefits of both on the same day, no?

Sure, but my goal isn't to gain strength right now, I'm in a caloric deficit. Burning fat is my current goal. Lifting heavy burns fat, so that's good, and while strength isn't my focus right now I am trying to slow the speed with which I lose it. I know it'll come right back as soon as I start eating at a maintenance level, but I'd still like to keep as much as possible while focusing on the primary goal of losing fat.

But even if a person is strength training, there's still a role for some conditioning and limited cardio. I don't see why it'd matter if you do the cardio/conditioning on a day that you strength trained or not. It's not as if you'd run a caloric surplus on Monday for lifting and then a deficit on Tuesday for conditioning.

My basic take on it is:
Caloric surplus for strength and/or mass gains.
Caloric maintenance for possible recomp or status quo.
Caloric deficit for fat loss.

Additionally, you include strength work, conditioning, and cardio no matter what your goal is. But your goal will influence how you prioritize each of them. Right now conditioning and cardio have a higher priority for me. But once I switch to maintenance (and even when I switch to surplus) I'll still do all three, but my focus will change to more strength work and less cardio.

_________________
"I want to see the whole picture--as nearly as I can. I don't want to put on the blinders of 'good and bad,' and limit my vision."-- In Dubious Battle



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 Post subject: Re: The Work-Out Thread
PostPosted: Tue September 11, 2018 2:27 pm 
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Give me all of your foam rolling exercises, RM


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 Post subject: Re: The Work-Out Thread
PostPosted: Tue September 11, 2018 2:55 pm 
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washing machine wrote:
Give me all of your foam rolling exercises, RM

the only thing i roll is joints

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 Post subject: Re: The Work-Out Thread
PostPosted: Tue September 11, 2018 2:59 pm 
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lennytheweedwhacker wrote:
washing machine wrote:
Give me all of your foam rolling exercises, RM

the only thing i roll is joints

Haha okay verb


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 Post subject: Re: The Work-Out Thread
PostPosted: Tue September 11, 2018 4:58 pm 
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washing machine wrote:
lennytheweedwhacker wrote:
washing machine wrote:
Give me all of your foam rolling exercises, RM

the only thing i roll is joints

Haha okay verb

I got high with verb last weekend

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Jammer XCI wrote:
My bong got broken tonight


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 Post subject: Re: The Work-Out Thread
PostPosted: Wed September 12, 2018 4:21 pm 
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if i may interject

there are two main thoughts on cardio

pre workout - you get the heart rate going and your "metabolism" gets going
post workout - the energy you use to do cardio is your stored fat

like 4/5 im training to add muscle. days i lift (m,t,th,f) i do a quick 5 minute warm up just to get the blood circulating

i then do my workouts and then finish with another 20-25 minutes of cardio. my weapon of choice is the elliptical machine

i then do a 2.5 mile jaunt at lunch around our plant

then after work i shoot hoops for 30 minutes

so far with the workout i have been following id guess i have lost 20lbs of fat over 6 months and probably put on 5 lbs of muscle. ill be more precise when november rolls around and i get my official weigh in and body fat % at UPMC

the differences between lifting weights to build muscle, get in shape or just keep active are very different and require different amounts of energy. for the longest of times i treated them all quite the same

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 Post subject: Re: The Work-Out Thread
PostPosted: Wed September 12, 2018 5:28 pm 
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Body types matter, you guys.


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 Post subject: Re: The Work-Out Thread
PostPosted: Wed September 12, 2018 5:49 pm 
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Self wrote:
Body types matter, you guys.

In Verb's name, amen.

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"I want to see the whole picture--as nearly as I can. I don't want to put on the blinders of 'good and bad,' and limit my vision."-- In Dubious Battle



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 Post subject: Re: The Work-Out Thread
PostPosted: Wed September 12, 2018 6:56 pm 
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Self wrote:
Body types matter, you guys.

what would your ideal program look like for a taut 6' 173lb marketmonging fop who's interested in balancing gaining a moderate amount of strength, increasing overall functional athletic capacity, and staying quite lean?

crossfit is not an option


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 Post subject: Re: The Work-Out Thread
PostPosted: Wed September 12, 2018 7:04 pm 
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--- wrote:
Self wrote:
Body types matter, you guys.

what would your ideal program look like for a taut 6' 173lb marketmonging fop who's interested in balancing gaining a moderate amount of strength, increasing overall functional athletic capacity, and staying quite lean?

crossfit is not an option

Excellent question and I'd like to add
Spoiler: show
washing machine wrote:
Give me all of your foam rolling exercises, RM


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 Post subject: Re: The Work-Out Thread
PostPosted: Wed September 12, 2018 7:08 pm 
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Future Drummer
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washing machine wrote:
--- wrote:
Self wrote:
Body types matter, you guys.

what would your ideal program look like for a taut 6' 173lb marketmonging fop who's interested in balancing gaining a moderate amount of strength, increasing overall functional athletic capacity, and staying quite lean?

crossfit is not an option

Excellent question and I'd like to add
Spoiler: show
washing machine wrote:
Give me all of your foam rolling exercises, RM

how much foam can you bench press?


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 Post subject: Re: The Work-Out Thread
PostPosted: Wed September 12, 2018 7:36 pm 
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I would never.


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 Post subject: Re: The Work-Out Thread
PostPosted: Thu September 13, 2018 3:05 pm 
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--- wrote:
Self wrote:
Body types matter, you guys.

what would your ideal program look like for a taut 6' 173lb marketmonging fop who's interested in balancing gaining a moderate amount of strength, increasing overall functional athletic capacity, and staying quite lean?

crossfit is not an option

If you want to get stronger Crossfit is obviously not an option.

It depends on where you're starting from, but my advice is really simple:
For strength, follow a program centered on compound, heavy lifts. For athletic capacity, do some plyometric type of training and conditioning work. Assuming you're currently eating a maintenance level of calories, bump that up by 10% as you'll need those calories for the additional work you'll be doing. Provided that you're not eating pure junk, any weight you'll be putting on should overwhelmingly be muscle.

There are a ton of good strength programs out there, and while some may be better or worse than others it really just comes down to consistency. So pick one that you believe in and do it consistently.

Strength training 3 days a week: squats, deadlifts, bench, overhead press, chins, and cleans might be a good place to start. Google starting strength or Bill Starr for specific programs based around these exercises. You'll probably start by doing 3-5 sets of 5 reps progressively adding more weight each workout as long as you can.

Then 2-3x a week you can do your preferred conditioning/athletic activities: swimming, sprinting, circuit training, cycling, etc.

_________________
"I want to see the whole picture--as nearly as I can. I don't want to put on the blinders of 'good and bad,' and limit my vision."-- In Dubious Battle



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 Post subject: Re: The Work-Out Thread
PostPosted: Thu September 13, 2018 3:53 pm 
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4/5 wrote:
--- wrote:
Self wrote:
Body types matter, you guys.

what would your ideal program look like for a taut 6' 173lb marketmonging fop who's interested in balancing gaining a moderate amount of strength, increasing overall functional athletic capacity, and staying quite lean?

crossfit is not an option

If you want to get stronger Crossfit is obviously not an option.

It depends on where you're starting from, but my advice is really simple:
For strength, follow a program centered on compound, heavy lifts. For athletic capacity, do some plyometric type of training and conditioning work. Assuming you're currently eating a maintenance level of calories, bump that up by 10% as you'll need those calories for the additional work you'll be doing. Provided that you're not eating pure junk, any weight you'll be putting on should overwhelmingly be muscle.

There are a ton of good strength programs out there, and while some may be better or worse than others it really just comes down to consistency. So pick one that you believe in and do it consistently.

Strength training 3 days a week: squats, deadlifts, bench, overhead press, chins, and cleans might be a good place to start. Google starting strength or Bill Starr for specific programs based around these exercises. You'll probably start by doing 3-5 sets of 5 reps progressively adding more weight each workout as long as you can.

Then 2-3x a week you can do your preferred conditioning/athletic activities: swimming, sprinting, circuit training, cycling, etc.

okay i'm on the right track then, this sounds pretty much like my program now. lift three times a week, focusing on compound movements and form (i'm less concerned with progressive overload than most, i suspect; i add weight only after i can do at least three sets of ten reps maintaining ideal form) and then swim two or three times a week, alternating between low/medium-intensity steady state and sprints. i limit myself to one cheat meal a week, hit the vegetables and lean proteins pretty dang hard, and have almost entirely eliminated processed junk (simple carbs and added sugars). my goal is to solicit a request from the lennytheweedwhacker account to rub my abs and/or lats.


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 Post subject: Re: The Work-Out Thread
PostPosted: Thu September 13, 2018 4:02 pm 
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--- wrote:
4/5 wrote:
--- wrote:
Self wrote:
Body types matter, you guys.

what would your ideal program look like for a taut 6' 173lb marketmonging fop who's interested in balancing gaining a moderate amount of strength, increasing overall functional athletic capacity, and staying quite lean?

crossfit is not an option

If you want to get stronger Crossfit is obviously not an option.

It depends on where you're starting from, but my advice is really simple:
For strength, follow a program centered on compound, heavy lifts. For athletic capacity, do some plyometric type of training and conditioning work. Assuming you're currently eating a maintenance level of calories, bump that up by 10% as you'll need those calories for the additional work you'll be doing. Provided that you're not eating pure junk, any weight you'll be putting on should overwhelmingly be muscle.

There are a ton of good strength programs out there, and while some may be better or worse than others it really just comes down to consistency. So pick one that you believe in and do it consistently.

Strength training 3 days a week: squats, deadlifts, bench, overhead press, chins, and cleans might be a good place to start. Google starting strength or Bill Starr for specific programs based around these exercises. You'll probably start by doing 3-5 sets of 5 reps progressively adding more weight each workout as long as you can.

Then 2-3x a week you can do your preferred conditioning/athletic activities: swimming, sprinting, circuit training, cycling, etc.

okay i'm on the right track then, this sounds pretty much like my program now. lift three times a week, focusing on compound movements and form (i'm less concerned with progressive overload than most, i suspect; i add weight only after i can do at least three sets of ten reps maintaining ideal form) and then swim two or three times a week, alternating between low/medium-intensity steady state and sprints. i limit myself to one cheat meal a week, hit the vegetables and lean proteins pretty dang hard, and have almost entirely eliminated processed junk (simple carbs and added sugars). my goal is to solicit a request from the lennytheweedwhacker account to rub my abs and/or lats.



Come to GOAT with me. Its a bunch of ex crossfitters who realized how awful cross fit is. Similar lifts (squats, deadlifts, overhead press, chest press, circuit and interval training and various other strength training options)

I feel so good these days.

215 on my working weight for dead lifts. It makes me happy.

Also, lets do yoga.


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