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Its very tough to rank all the great QB's. I mean, Terry Bradshaw won 4 SBs. I certainly would'nt put him anywhere near the top of the list of all time great QBs.
Personally, I always thought Dan Marino was the best and would probably do well in any era. As 4/5 mentioned, he elevated some pretty questionable teams to the playoffs on a regular basis: consistently lacked a running game and decent defenses.
It's a tricky argument, for sure. I guess, it comes down to how highly you value championships. Peyton is going to the hall of fame. And he absolutely should. He's one of the smartest, accurate, dedicated and exciting players to watch. Especially in regular season play.
I never saw Marino play. I can't compare what he did in the post season to what I've seen Manning do. For me, if there is a down side to Peyton Manning, it's that he isn't clutch. He doesn't elevate his play when it mattes the most, in the post season. Was the same true of Marino? Regardless of the players surrounding him, did Marino get better, elevate himself, and do everything in his power to make as few mistakes a possible and put his team in a position to win?
Marino had exactly 1 1000 yard rusher (which isn't even that big of a deal in a 16 game schedule) in 17 years - he was pretty much on his own offensively. And he had a top 10 defense only 4 times.
Wow. So, he was the team. Impressive. I wish I would have been old enough to care and actually watch the guy play.
Mark Duper and Mark Clayton weren't exactly slouch WRs...their (career) numbers don't seem all that impressive compared to today's passing friendly game, but those two were awesome...but the second half of Marino's career was a personnel disaster...bad wideouts, bad RBs (Karim Abdul-Jabar SUCKED, and I don't care how many yards he rushed for), and they would have pieces on the defensive side of the ball but could never get a really good cohesive unit on the field. Still can't believe they lost to the Patriots in '85...they certainly would've put up more of a fight in that Super Bowl against Da Bears
Especially since they were the only team to beat Da Bears that year. And, that Bears team was unbelievable.
if Marino gets to that Super Bowl and wins, beating truly one of the all time greatest teams, it might be enough to vault him over Montana, even with only one ring
Its very tough to rank all the great QB's. I mean, Terry Bradshaw won 4 SBs. I certainly would'nt put him anywhere near the top of the list of all time great QBs.
Personally, I always thought Dan Marino was the best and would probably do well in any era. As 4/5 mentioned, he elevated some pretty questionable teams to the playoffs on a regular basis: consistently lacked a running game and decent defenses.
It's a tricky argument, for sure. I guess, it comes down to how highly you value championships. Peyton is going to the hall of fame. And he absolutely should. He's one of the smartest, accurate, dedicated and exciting players to watch. Especially in regular season play.
I never saw Marino play. I can't compare what he did in the post season to what I've seen Manning do. For me, if there is a down side to Peyton Manning, it's that he isn't clutch. He doesn't elevate his play when it mattes the most, in the post season. Was the same true of Marino? Regardless of the players surrounding him, did Marino get better, elevate himself, and do everything in his power to make as few mistakes a possible and put his team in a position to win?
Marino had exactly 1 1000 yard rusher (which isn't even that big of a deal in a 16 game schedule) in 17 years - he was pretty much on his own offensively. And he had a top 10 defense only 4 times.
Wow. So, he was the team. Impressive. I wish I would have been old enough to care and actually watch the guy play.
Mark Duper and Mark Clayton weren't exactly slouch WRs...their (career) numbers don't seem all that impressive compared to today's passing friendly game, but those two were awesome...but the second half of Marino's career was a personnel disaster...bad wideouts, bad RBs (Karim Abdul-Jabar SUCKED, and I don't care how many yards he rushed for), and they would have pieces on the defensive side of the ball but could never get a really good cohesive unit on the field. Still can't believe they lost to the Patriots in '85...they certainly would've put up more of a fight in that Super Bowl against Da Bears
Especially since they were the only team to beat Da Bears that year. And, that Bears team was unbelievable.
if Marino gets to that Super Bowl and wins, beating truly one of the all time greatest teams, it might be enough to vault him over Montana, even with only one ring
Agreed, and as a Bears fan myself, I really wanted that rematch.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 9:08 pm Posts: 4734 Location: 5th floor, Bay 7, position 5740
Falcons probably overachieved in the regular season; they're more of an 11-5 team but that's hardly condeming them. A bit much is made of their schedule; it's not like they played KC and Jax every week and they did just beat what was the hottest team coming into the playoffs. Had they played last week the whole game the way they did in the first half no doubt their supporters could make a stronger case. Whatever, I'm excited about Sunday afternoon; I will be very surprised if Atlanta gets blown out. It's cute to listen to the ladies in the office who normally do not follow football talk about the game.
Its very tough to rank all the great QB's. I mean, Terry Bradshaw won 4 SBs. I certainly would'nt put him anywhere near the top of the list of all time great QBs.
Personally, I always thought Dan Marino was the best and would probably do well in any era. As 4/5 mentioned, he elevated some pretty questionable teams to the playoffs on a regular basis: consistently lacked a running game and decent defenses.
It's a tricky argument, for sure. I guess, it comes down to how highly you value championships. Peyton is going to the hall of fame. And he absolutely should. He's one of the smartest, accurate, dedicated and exciting players to watch. Especially in regular season play.
I never saw Marino play. I can't compare what he did in the post season to what I've seen Manning do. For me, if there is a down side to Peyton Manning, it's that he isn't clutch. He doesn't elevate his play when it mattes the most, in the post season. Was the same true of Marino? Regardless of the players surrounding him, did Marino get better, elevate himself, and do everything in his power to make as few mistakes a possible and put his team in a position to win?
Marino had exactly 1 1000 yard rusher (which isn't even that big of a deal in a 16 game schedule) in 17 years - he was pretty much on his own offensively. And he had a top 10 defense only 4 times.
Wow. So, he was the team. Impressive. I wish I would have been old enough to care and actually watch the guy play.
Mark Duper and Mark Clayton weren't exactly slouch WRs...their (career) numbers don't seem all that impressive compared to today's passing friendly game, but those two were awesome...but the second half of Marino's career was a personnel disaster...bad wideouts, bad RBs (Karim Abdul-Jabar SUCKED, and I don't care how many yards he rushed for), and they would have pieces on the defensive side of the ball but could never get a really good cohesive unit on the field. Still can't believe they lost to the Patriots in '85...they certainly would've put up more of a fight in that Super Bowl against Da Bears
Especially since they were the only team to beat Da Bears that year. And, that Bears team was unbelievable.
if Marino gets to that Super Bowl and wins, beating truly one of the all time greatest teams, it might be enough to vault him over Montana, even with only one ring
Agreed, and as a Bears fan myself, I really wanted that rematch.
Peter King just wrote a pretty good article about the under appreciated John Harbaugh who has won 61 games in the last 5 years 2nd only to Belicheck.
The best records belonged to Belicheck, John Harbaugh McCarthy, Tomlin and Smith (apparently Michael is a successful name)
Harbaugh and Smith are the only two coaches in that group that had rookie QB's when they started and neither has made the Super Bowl but Harbaugh has won 7 playoff games in that time.
Smith had arguably the worst amount of talent of those 5 across the board but only has 4 less wins at 57 in the same time period.
It's sort of suprising that Belicheck has not won a Super Bowl in quite a while.
It seems like most of the credit goes to Ozzie Newsome when talking about Baltimore's success. Whether that's fair or not, I don't know. It does seem to me that the roster is definitely the ultimate thing in the NFL. No amount of coaching voodoo can make up for not having enough good players when it comes down to it. Harbaugh and Smith are both great coaches though. Before they got Julio and some of their other young guys really rounded into form, the Falcons always seemed to go farther than their talent should allow.
It seems like most of the credit goes to Ozzie Newsome when talking about Baltimore's success. Whether that's fair or not, I don't know. It does seem to me that the roster is definitely the ultimate thing in the NFL. No amount of coaching voodoo can make up for not having enough good players when it comes down to it. Harbaugh and Smith are both great coaches though. Before they got Julio and some of their other young guys really rounded into form, the Falcons always seemed to go farther than their talent should allow.
I think it illustrates the importance of good leadership really in spite of the roster. The head coach keeps everything together and everyone focused. Save a bad drop last year and a terrible kick, Baltimore is in the Super Bowl.
THey lost Ladarius Webb early, lost Ray for a while, Ed Reed has been spotty for a while now, they have been plagued with OL issues occasionally (who hasn't?) and it's taken them several years to get right at receiver even if Ray Rice was a brilliant pick.
Newsome is obviously the architect of a great roster (I think he's the one of the best GM's in football and a better evaluator than most) but Harbaugh has taken the talent and won with it where other coaches couldn't.
The Jets conversely went to two consecutive AFC championship games but thier leadership has been awful, and their talent evaluation remarkably poor, this year was the result of that.
likes rhythmic things that butt up against each other
Joined: Fri January 04, 2013 11:12 pm Posts: 742
The 49ers are a clear example of the importance of coaching. Even though they've got a pretty fantastic roster (though last year they were weak at WR), they couldn't win consistently until Harbaugh arrived, and look at Alex Smith pre- and post-Harbaugh.
49ers Crabtree sex assault investigation Jaxon Van Derbeken, Chronicle staff writer Updated 8:09 pm, Friday, January 18, 2013
San Francisco police have interviewed 49ers wide receiver Michael Crabtree about allegations that he sexually assaulted a woman in the city following the team's victory last weekend, The Chronicle has learned.
The alleged attack occurred at an unnamed hotel early on Jan. 13, hours after the team's victory over the Green Bay Packers at Candlestick Park.
The incident is being investigated by the Special Victims Unit, whose detectives have interviewed Crabtree with his lawyer present. Crabtree has agreed to make himself available for possible further interviews about an assault.
The 25-year-old player - who has not been detained or arrested - is expected to play in Sunday's game against the Atlanta Falcons.
A spokesman for the 49ers was traveling with the team to Atlanta and couldn't immediately comment.
The 49ers selected Crabtree with the 10th overall pick in the 2009 NFL draft. After three up-and-down seasons, he started to live up to his billing in 2012, particularly after Colin Kaepernick took over as quarterback.
In the NFC divisional playoff game against the Packers, he had nine receptions for 119 yards and two touchdowns.
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