Spoiler that shit, yo.

Are you being sarcastic?

I accept that LV doesn't like it because it undermines subtext of a previous arc.

I accept that burt doesn't like JJ Abrams and that it isn't interesting to him.

I'd be willing to bet that the rest of us accept that part of his story because it makes sense. It doesn't mean we like it, but we are okay with it because it seems organic to the character.

It doesn't mean that any of us disagree with each other. I'm not sure what either of you need besides "I agree with you that this thing that bothers you has validity"

You're all batty. The OT was a blast because of the FX and basic plot points. I don't believe that any one of you were sussing out deeper character arc stuff when you were kids, and you mostly liked the light sabers, the costume design, and the action figure tie-ins.

We all hated the prequels because we were old enough to appreciate the finer points, and saw that it was completely lacking in them. But a ton of little kids loved those movies.

Why even desire anything different from the Disney versions? The lazers go PEW!, the sabers go VOOM!, and we even got another trench run. $10 and an evening well spent, no more, no less.

Ive learned in my dating life that often times the other person just wants to know their feelings are valid.

A wise person once told me that the two primary desires of all humans are to be recognized, and to feel included.

And thats why im single. Fuck that shit

Because you don't care to recognize and include another person? Or because they can't do that for you?

Because if Han and Leia can't make it work, what chance do i have?

I've heard you have a big dong. What else do you need?

oh my fucking god

They were going to make it work, until Adam Driver stabbed Han in the stomach.
If there's any lesson here Strat, it's don't ignore a moody Adam Driver.

Im just kidding guys. I love love.

I feel like Mecca had this resolved but we choose to ignore it cause its more fun to argue.

LV, what did you think about whats his name and Megan Fox breaking up in transformers after they saved the world?

I just wanted to post something, and the WWE thread is useless to me.

Thats the perfect summation of Star Wars:

"not very interesting, but certainly plausible."

So here's a long post I was writing as the conversation moved on. Here is Han's arc, as I see it.

When we meet Han Solo in a New Hope he is a hunted, haunted man. He can clearly create attachments because he loves and cares for Chewie despite bossing him around, but he is highly reluctant to let anyone in. He is suspicious and cynical and guarded. It’s not that he only cares about himself—it’s that he’s afraid of caring about other people. Over the course of the trilogy his arc is finding a way to let other people in and take risks on behalf of othem. He doesn’t need to be taught that it’s the right thing to do. He clearly knows that it is. He needs to be taught that other people are worth sacrificing for. He agrees to rescue the princess (I don’t buy that he only does this for money) in a New Hope and comes back for Luke (probably his plan) but he hides what he’s doing because he is afraid of letting his guard down. These are baby steps—they culminate in him accepting a role in the rebellion (a general), and allowing himself new attachments – to Luke and to Leia in different ways. Learning that there are people and causes and ideas worth fighting for.


Fast forward to The Force Awakens. I agree with strat that while he is in the movie partly for nostalgia he is also there to help legitimate the new characters in the eyes of the audience—to pass the torch. Maybe you don’t like that personally, but chalk that up to your taste not aligning with the rest of the galaxy.

The question is can they do that in a way that is not only faithful to the character, but develops the character further in the process. And I think they unquestionably succeed.

We all seem to agree that his leaving Leia over the stress of his kid ‘s turn to the dark side was a plausible story reason to separate them. Having him make a living smuggling also seems realistic—and his arc is not his profession. If we’re uprooted and unsettled of course we fall back on old habits.

But look at what happens to him throughout the movie. He is disappointed in the universe (understandable) but he’s not cynical about it (and as people have remarked his ‘it’s true’ speech about the Force happens in the same spot where he was once dismissive about it). He is clearly willing to risk his life for the Resistance. He is willing to help Rey and Finn, despite having no personal connection to them. Han doesn’t really take a journey in the Force Awakens—they reset the plot but not the character.


And in the end Han ends up sacrificing himself for someone that he loves, with no guarantee of success and a high probability of failure. He has completed the journey that began in a New Hope. It is the perfect closure to his arc—much more than settling down with Leia for the happy ending.

maybe han solo's a closet alcoholic