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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Prequels
PostPosted: Fri December 01, 2017 10:43 am 
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Never knew about this. Could be good all three prequels edited down to one movie.

https://news.avclub.com/topher-grace-edited-all-the-star-wars-prequels-into-a-s-1798230237

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Prequels
PostPosted: Fri December 01, 2017 2:04 pm 
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The problem with those edits, for me, is that they tend to cut out too much of the supporting stuff, the lore stuff, the little moments that sing. They don't scalpel those movies, they hack them. And really, the biggest issues with these movies are the terrible performances. And editing what's already there isn't going to change those.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Prequels
PostPosted: Fri December 01, 2017 2:24 pm 
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durdencommatyler wrote:
The problem with those edits, for me, is that they tend to cut out too much of the supporting stuff, the lore stuff, the little moments that sing. They don't scalpel those movies, they hack them. And really, the biggest issues with these movies are the terrible performances. And editing what's already there isn't going to change those.


I agree that the majority of performances are terrible, with the exception maybe of Obi-Wan and Palpatine, but even they have flaws. Obi-Wan is kind of a dick in 1 and Palps is way too over the top after the lightning bolt sequence.

Where I disagree, is the performances are the biggest issues. I feel the story themselves are the biggest issues. What Obi-Wan laid out to Luke in A New Hope should have been explored more. They really fucked up the Anakin / Owen dynamic. That could have been a nice bit of drama / tension as Anakin follows Obi-Wan on some damn fool idealistic crusade, and for all intent purposes dies with Obi-Wan.

I could go on and on, but pretty much every story arc was pretty bad. Obi-Wan, not Qui-Gon should have been Anakin's sole mentor, maybe Anakin could have been expelled from the Jedi Order and Obi-Wan trains him anyway, thus adding weight / remorse on him for failing Anakin. Maybe Padme and Anakin could have been closer in age, not 10 years or whatever it was. Maybe Anakin could have been the same actor for all three films. Maybe the clone wars happen towards the end of episode one. Maybe episode 2 is more akin to the Clone Wars series, and 3 is heavier drama. Maybe Padme doesn't die at the end, rather dies early on in the Rebel cause, that way, you know, what Leia says in ROTJ is actually true. Man alive, I could still go on and on. Fuck this.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Prequels
PostPosted: Fri December 01, 2017 4:33 pm 
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There’s a deleted scene with Padme and bail and mon mothma sorta setting up the rebellion.
Her surviving a few years would have been awesome but how then so you have Anakin as Vader kill her? I spose it could be amazing if done right. She leaves him and he goes full psycho and he’s in the suit at this stage anyways after mustafar.

Psycho ex killing his love cos he can’t have would add but change a lot about the OT esp Luke and Leias parts

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Prequels
PostPosted: Fri December 01, 2017 4:55 pm 
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Those deleted rebellion scenes should have been in ROTS.

I don't think Padme necessarily had to be killed by Anakin's / Vader. She simply could have known what he became, and is heartbroken, as she was in ROTS. However, like 4 years later, Padme dies in some early rebellion mission. Maybe by Vader, maybe not. All we need to know is that she died when Leia was very young, and that she was very beautiful, but sad.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Prequels
PostPosted: Fri December 01, 2017 5:49 pm 
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darth_vedder wrote:
durdencommatyler wrote:
The problem with those edits, for me, is that they tend to cut out too much of the supporting stuff, the lore stuff, the little moments that sing. They don't scalpel those movies, they hack them. And really, the biggest issues with these movies are the terrible performances. And editing what's already there isn't going to change those.


I agree that the majority of performances are terrible, with the exception maybe of Obi-Wan and Palpatine, but even they have flaws. Obi-Wan is kind of a dick in 1 and Palps is way too over the top after the lightning bolt sequence.

Where I disagree, is the performances are the biggest issues. I feel the story themselves are the biggest issues. What Obi-Wan laid out to Luke in A New Hope should have been explored more. They really fucked up the Anakin / Owen dynamic. That could have been a nice bit of drama / tension as Anakin follows Obi-Wan on some damn fool idealistic crusade, and for all intent purposes dies with Obi-Wan.

I could go on and on, but pretty much every story arc was pretty bad. Obi-Wan, not Qui-Gon should have been Anakin's sole mentor, maybe Anakin could have been expelled from the Jedi Order and Obi-Wan trains him anyway, thus adding weight / remorse on him for failing Anakin. Maybe Padme and Anakin could have been closer in age, not 10 years or whatever it was. Maybe Anakin could have been the same actor for all three films. Maybe the clone wars happen towards the end of episode one. Maybe episode 2 is more akin to the Clone Wars series, and 3 is heavier drama. Maybe Padme doesn't die at the end, rather dies early on in the Rebel cause, that way, you know, what Leia says in ROTJ is actually true. Man alive, I could still go on and on. Fuck this.

I'm not saying you're wrong at all. Most people feel the way you do. It's not a hot take or anything. I'm just made my peace with a lot of the things the Prequels COULD have been and I'm at a place where I want to look at what's there. And I think what is there is a lot of interesting politics and lore. There is a ton of story to mine. A lot of it is fleshed out and far more successful in The Clone Wars series, for sure. I think if Lucas cared about actors, he could have directed/edited performances that conveyed a lot of the things you're talking about. There could have been so much subtext, so many layers, so many things implied. There just isn't any subtlety and a lack of nuance to the performances, in general. Such a waste.

I will adamantly disagree about Qui-Gon. He's super important and the more the flesh him out, the more I like him. His actions and thoughts are becoming vital to what the Force is and to the major themes of this saga.

But, yes, the movies COULD have done a million things differently and most of those are probably things I would have appreciated and liked more than what's there. But tearing something apart based on the things it isn't rather than what it is becomes tedious and uninteresting to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Prequels
PostPosted: Fri December 01, 2017 5:54 pm 
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The politics that people complain about, I don't really mind. Gov't shit is boring yet fascinating. I think the Clone Wars series did a pretty good job covering the politics / corruption / playing both sides (Palpatine). Some of that stuff would have been cool (politics / clone war battles) in the movies.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Prequels
PostPosted: Fri December 01, 2017 5:57 pm 
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durdencommatyler wrote:

I will adamantly disagree about Qui-Gon. He's super important and the more the flesh him out, the more I like him. His actions and thoughts are becoming vital to what the Force is and to the major themes of this saga.


I don't mind the idea of him, he still could have had a solid role, but I don't think he needed to work with Anakin as much. Some of those scenes could have been with Obi-wan and Anakin. Speaking of Qui-Gon, they kinda fucked up the force ghost stuff too. That could have been his major part / character arc, but instead we get like 1 second about it between AOTC and ROTS.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Prequels
PostPosted: Fri December 01, 2017 6:18 pm 
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It's very clear that George felt pinned in by the OT and had to force stuff in here and there where he could in the Prequels. They needed much better planning/continuity, for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Prequels
PostPosted: Fri December 01, 2017 6:33 pm 
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darth_vedder wrote:
Those deleted rebellion scenes should have been in ROTS.

I don't think Padme necessarily had to be killed by Anakin's / Vader. She simply could have known what he became, and is heartbroken, as she was in ROTS. However, like 4 years later, Padme dies in some early rebellion mission. Maybe by Vader, maybe not. All we need to know is that she died when Leia was very young, and that she was very beautiful, but sad.



Yeah but if she lives then he Knows the babies survived.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Prequels
PostPosted: Fri December 01, 2017 6:44 pm 
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durdencommatyler wrote:
It's very clear that George felt pinned in by the OT and had to force stuff in here and there where he could in the Prequels. They needed much better planning/continuity, for sure.

He had more than a couple years to deal with it since RotJ where Luke asks Leia what she remembers of her mother. They hand-waived that away as "well it was her adoptive mother" which ruined the whole damn scene in RotJ.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Prequels
PostPosted: Fri December 01, 2017 7:13 pm 
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bune wrote:
durdencommatyler wrote:
It's very clear that George felt pinned in by the OT and had to force stuff in here and there where he could in the Prequels. They needed much better planning/continuity, for sure.

He had more than a couple years to deal with it since RotJ where Luke asks Leia what she remembers of her mother. They hand-waived that away as "well it was her adoptive mother" which ruined the whole damn scene in RotJ.

The comics and books have done a great job of dealing with this issue and sort of retconning it. She absolutely remembers her adoptive mother. I mean she's a main character in the Leia: Princess of Alderaan novel.

Leia, as we know, is Force sensitive. So the "memories" she has of her mother are absolutely of Padme. But they are more akin to Force memories. Her Force sensitivity/power allows her to remember/feel/sense past events. She has vague impressions because of that. It's explained in the comics. Or maybe in Bloodline. I can't remember. But they do a good job fixing George's nonsense, I think.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Prequels
PostPosted: Fri December 01, 2017 7:22 pm 
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George is a visionary. He's a great director and thinker and creator. But he's a terrible writer and has no understanding of how to work with actors. He had plenty of time to figure all this out. He unnecessarily painted himself into corners. He could have avoided it. But he wasn't interested in all that. All those things are his own fault. I'm not denying that. He got caught up in new ideas. Things like canon weren't prominent in the culture then. He wasn't thinking about continuity the way that we do.


Last edited by durdencommatyler on Fri December 01, 2017 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Prequels
PostPosted: Fri December 01, 2017 7:37 pm 
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durdencommatyler wrote:
bune wrote:
durdencommatyler wrote:
It's very clear that George felt pinned in by the OT and had to force stuff in here and there where he could in the Prequels. They needed much better planning/continuity, for sure.

He had more than a couple years to deal with it since RotJ where Luke asks Leia what she remembers of her mother. They hand-waived that away as "well it was her adoptive mother" which ruined the whole damn scene in RotJ.

The comics and books have done a great job of dealing with this issue and sort of retconning it. She absolutely remembers her adoptive mother. I mean she's a main character in the Leia: Princess of Alderaan novel.

Leia, as we know, is Force sensitive. So the "memories" she has of her mother are absolutely of Padme. But they are more akin to Force memories. Her Force sensitivity/power allows her to remember/feel/sense past events. She has vague impressions because of that. It's explained in the comics. Or maybe in Bloodline. I can't remember. But they do a good job fixing George's nonsense, I think.

That sounds like something from the 3rd season of Heroes.

I'll have to read that book soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Prequels
PostPosted: Fri December 01, 2017 7:42 pm 
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durdencommatyler wrote:
George is a visionary. He's a great director and thinking and creator. But he's a terrible writer and has no understanding of how to work with actors. He had plenty of time to figure all this out. He unnecessarily painted himself into corners. He could have avoided it. But he wasn't interested in all that. All those things are his own fault. I'm not denying that. He got caught up in new ideas. Things like canon weren't prominent in the culture then. He wasn't thinking about continuity the way that we do.

It's funny you mention that. I was reading the essay on television from David Foster Wallace ("E Unibus Pluram: Television and U.S. Fiction") and a conceit of that is that people starting 'meta' writing because of television getting bigger and bigger.

He's got a lot of ideas in that essay. I need to buy a copy of the book so I can highlight and write notes. Gotta go to the what are you reading thread now.

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