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Well?
Loved it - among the best Star Wars Movie 38%  38%  [ 24 ]
Really liked it, but not one of the best 19%  19%  [ 12 ]
Liked it - it's Star Wars 16%  16%  [ 10 ]
Ehhh 21%  21%  [ 13 ]
I miss the prequels 6%  6%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 63
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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
PostPosted: Wed July 11, 2018 11:23 pm 
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VinylGuy wrote:
stip wrote:
and finn dying at the end would have undercut one of the major themes of the film


which theme


So Finn not dying is both in service of his character arc across these two movies thus far, and of one of the film's most important themes.

As far as the arc goes, across both films Finn, like Rey, is looking for a home and a place to belong. It's not really about being a hero, since most of what Finn does he does either to help his friends, or to get revenge on those who have wrong him and his friends. He has courage, but he's not a part of something larger than himself. At the end when he's going to sacrifice himself to try and destroy the cannon he's doing so out of spite and revenge. It's not 'I have to save my friends', it's 'I can't let them win'. And the film doesn't give us much in the way of textual support to think that his sacrifice would have destroyed the cannon anyway. He likely wasn't going to make it, or do much to it. The lesson he has to learn is that the best thing you can do to support the people you care about is to live for them (or, if you're going to take risks and sacrfice yourself on their behalf, be clear that you are doing it out of love for them, rather than hatred for what you oppose - this is played out really nicely in Holdo's final sequences, or Obi Wan's death way back in A New Hope). You get that phrasing from Rose in her 'that's how we're gonna win, not by killing what we hate, but saving what we love' line. He also needs to survive that moment to complete his journey - he commits to the rebellion and the idea of being part of something larger than himself while he is on Snoke's ship (culminating in his exchange with Phasma) but he hasn't quite purified himself of the baser and angrier motivations - the desire to lash out and seek revenge.

In that way Finn represents a road not taking with Kylo. Someone deeply wounded and hurt by the world around them and doesn't quite yet know how to respond to it.

In terms of the larger theme you do get that really nice encapsulation by Rose (which is a bit of a cheesy line, but it is also a cheesy sentiment, but no less powerful for it). The Last Jedi really dives into the idea of legacy as a source of inter generational conflict. All the new characters (and Luke and Leia) grapple with this to a greater or lesser degree. How much are we shaped by the past, how much are we trapped by it, and how do we find a way to move forward. Rey and Kylo have this conversation explicitly in the throne room - with Rey needing to let go of the elements of her past that constrain her while wanting to keep the best parts of it (the exact same struggle luke is having - he gets there with Yoda's intervention. Rey actually gets there through her encounters with Han and Kylo). Kylo, on the other hand, wants to famously burn it all down. He is a mass of seething anger and resentment and is prepared to sacrifice anything in the mistaken belief that if he cuts and wounds and kills enough somehow the pain will go away. It's easy enough to track Kylo's arc because it is front and center. It's a bit easier to miss how Finn is going through a similar set of experiences. If he sacrifices himself in anger, even in an attempt to do good, he's basically validating Kylo's perspective. He needs to live (either to save himself or be saved and have that epiphany afterwards) so he can learn that it is more important to protect what you want to live for than punish the things you hate.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
PostPosted: Wed July 11, 2018 11:59 pm 
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Goodness I love stip.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
PostPosted: Thu July 12, 2018 4:35 am 
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Excellently put, Stip. Well done.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
PostPosted: Thu July 12, 2018 6:50 am 
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And if he’d sacrificed himself we’d have quickly forgotten about his sacrifice and him altogether cos we see luke go out minutes later.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
PostPosted: Thu July 12, 2018 9:58 am 
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good point, dime

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
PostPosted: Thu July 12, 2018 2:17 pm 
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stip wrote:
good point, dime


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
PostPosted: Thu July 12, 2018 3:10 pm 
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I totally respect that view on Finn´arc. But even if thats what Rian had in mind, its poorly executed.

I dont really think there is room for Finn in the next ep to be honest.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
PostPosted: Thu July 12, 2018 3:11 pm 
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"I dont like Finn, they should have sacrificed him to help the story i still dont enjoy"


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
PostPosted: Thu July 12, 2018 3:16 pm 
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yeah, that not what i meant.

I think it would have been more dramatic and interesting to see how the others handled his death also. He is sacrificing for his friends and the rebellion just like rose´s sister did at the beginning of the movie.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
PostPosted: Thu July 12, 2018 3:20 pm 
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VinylGuy wrote:
yeah, that not what i meant.

I think it would have been more dramatic and interesting to see how the others handled his death also. He is sacrificing for his friends and the rebellion just like rose´s sister did at the beginning of the movie.

Eat shit, VG.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
PostPosted: Thu July 12, 2018 3:25 pm 
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Ok, finally finished my rewatch. Some things stuck with me. Thoughts below:

Liked:
- How contained the story is, especially the final 30-45 minutes. The space battle/ground battle back and forth has become a predictable trope in the series and this movie avoids it entirely. Good stuff.
- Everything with Rey and Kylo. This is their story. Continue to be the highlights of the new trilogy.
- Luke's scene with Yoda and his confrontation with Kylo are both beautifully done.
- The milking scene. Rian gets SW.
- The visuals on Crait.
- How the film portrayed Leia's force powers beyond the Mary Poppins scene. Sensing Luke's sacrifice before it happened, being able to physically touch his projection, sensing/communicating with Kylo before the attack on the bridge.
- How visceral/physical the action sequences continue to be. You feel the blaster bolts. Way less cartoony than the prequels and Marvel movies.
- Set design/effects/character design.
- I liked Hux's character arc a lot more on this rewatch. Same with Finn. Though, I still think Boyega overacts in almost every scene.

Disliked
- Rose's dialogue was way too on the nose. "I just want to punch right through this town". Groan. Her portrayal was fine though.
- Very nitpicky, but Kylo says, "no quarter, no prisoners" on their final attack on Crait right after Rose saves Finn. Yet, somehow Rose and Finn are able to walk hundreds of yards right in front of the attackers to the base.
- Some of the comedic lines will not age well.

Overall, I still rank this as a top 3 SW film. Lots to chew on and digest. Moves the saga forward while staying true to the past. I love the majority of the choices Rian made.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
PostPosted: Thu July 12, 2018 3:31 pm 
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Great points both columns MD.

(I *think* the novelisation has Finn dragged by Rose back and passing Luke at a distance away and wondering who he is and Kylo is etc are understandably focused on him.


Although the book also has Obi wan telling Luke to let go and we don’t get that either so..)

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
PostPosted: Thu July 12, 2018 3:32 pm 
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I like those little Force nods for Princess Leia. They are subtle and do kind of soften the ridiculousness of Lei floating through space. I dont hate that idea but i dont like how it was filmed as it looks completely fake and ridiculous.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
PostPosted: Thu July 12, 2018 3:45 pm 
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Strat wrote:
I like those little Force nods for Princess Leia. They are subtle and do kind of soften the ridiculousness of Lei floating through space. I dont hate that idea but i dont like how it was filmed as it looks completely fake and ridiculous.


Yeah, it doesn't really fit with the rest of the film. Love the idea though.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
PostPosted: Thu July 12, 2018 4:15 pm 
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Strat wrote:
VinylGuy wrote:
yeah, that not what i meant.

I think it would have been more dramatic and interesting to see how the others handled his death also. He is sacrificing for his friends and the rebellion just like rose´s sister did at the beginning of the movie.

Eat shit, VG.


Guys, im logging out from RM.

SW fans are really toxic.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
PostPosted: Thu July 12, 2018 4:16 pm 
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VinylGuy wrote:
Strat wrote:
VinylGuy wrote:
yeah, that not what i meant.

I think it would have been more dramatic and interesting to see how the others handled his death also. He is sacrificing for his friends and the rebellion just like rose´s sister did at the beginning of the movie.

Eat shit, VG.


Guys, im logging out from RM.

SW fans are really toxic.

You're like Fin going on some exotic adventure with his new friend! Leaving us all behind in hopes of a better future!


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
PostPosted: Thu July 12, 2018 4:23 pm 
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Strat wrote:
VinylGuy wrote:
Strat wrote:
VinylGuy wrote:
yeah, that not what i meant.

I think it would have been more dramatic and interesting to see how the others handled his death also. He is sacrificing for his friends and the rebellion just like rose´s sister did at the beginning of the movie.

Eat shit, VG.


Guys, im logging out from RM.

SW fans are really toxic.

You're like Fin going on some exotic adventure with his new friend! Leaving us all behind in hopes of a better future!


Even this exchange is better than Finn´s story.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
PostPosted: Thu July 12, 2018 4:23 pm 
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VinylGuy wrote:
Strat wrote:
VinylGuy wrote:
yeah, that not what i meant.

I think it would have been more dramatic and interesting to see how the others handled his death also. He is sacrificing for his friends and the rebellion just like rose´s sister did at the beginning of the movie.

Eat shit, VG.


Guys, im logging out from RM.

SW fans are really toxic.


Image


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
PostPosted: Thu July 12, 2018 6:10 pm 
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VinylGuy wrote:
Strat wrote:
VinylGuy wrote:
Strat wrote:
VinylGuy wrote:
yeah, that not what i meant.

I think it would have been more dramatic and interesting to see how the others handled his death also. He is sacrificing for his friends and the rebellion just like rose´s sister did at the beginning of the movie.

Eat shit, VG.


Guys, im logging out from RM.

SW fans are really toxic.

You're like Fin going on some exotic adventure with his new friend! Leaving us all behind in hopes of a better future!


Even this exchange is better than Finn´s story.


Everything that Finn spouts in TFA and TLJ is too on the nose. Then you got Rose joining in. No wonder Rian trying to hook them up at the end!

Then we'll have them in Episode IX explaining every character development and plot shift to the other characters!

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
PostPosted: Thu July 12, 2018 9:52 pm 
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I was looking at old posts in this thread and this caught my eye

Quote:
nothing spoiler about this other than soe excitement to come. Its the last paragraph of a non spoiler review I just read from the Minneapolis paper. Spoilering it for others.

Spoiler: hide
What makes Episode VIII outstanding is that since “A New Hope” and “The Empire Strikes Back,” no other movies in the Star Wars universe have hypnotized audiences with such unexpected surprises and didn’t-see-that-coming plot twists. It delivers developments like pieces of a puzzle that seem at first unrelated and later join together seamlessly. Never before has something that seems like a random makeup mistake turned into a key plot point. Johnson’s layered storytelling is a profusion of Jedi mind tricks, with as many crafty con games snaring unsuspecting viewers as the characters on-screen.

As Luke tells Rey, “This is not going to go the way you think!” It goes much better than that.



what is this random makeup mistake they are referring to?

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