to be fair, dime, you basically told him he didn't know what he was talking about in Star Wars, which you kind of do sometimes to people who may not know as much about the deepest corners of SW Cannon. Not everyone knows as much as you about the SW universe, but we are allowed to have negative opinions about it just the same. *shrugs*

But then it took a weird turn and you both were assholes to each other.

It’s all fun and games until someone loses an eye.

Nobody was insulting him. He was being a dick to Strat and then stip and when called on it he kicked off. Really no need for it and I was trying to make a laugh out of it to move past it. Almost worked too then he’s throwing anti Semite around and telling people to die.
But of an overreaction in fairness.

*its a beat for beat repeat of the TFA thread. No inspiration. RM is creatively spent.

dime, if you truly can’t see that you were being a huge prick to me without cause, then you have zero self-awareness. That’s what instigated the chaos.

This is what I'm talking about though, dime. Your understanding of the saga is the only right one, I 'spose.

Not at all. I wish. But when you don’t have a basic understanding of how characters in a universe or how that universe itself works, you’re building castles on sand then speaking about it and criticising others and telling them they’re wrong.


Can we move on?

The last Jedi has been completely pulled from Chinese cinemas after making only $31 million.
They have to be rethinking even releasing them over there, at this point.
https://screenrant.com/star-wars-last-j ... -theaters/

Jesus fucking Christ I never told anyone they’re wrong. YOU DID

So, that's not what you said, but it's what you said?

In all seriousness, I'm curious as to how his "understanding" of the universe is wrong? Couldn't people interpret these movies differently?

No

Completely wrong is a pretty bold statement, Anders.


Regarding ANH - the death of luke's family is treated as a rite of passage. He looks sad for a few moments and then decides to go off and have the adventure he always wanted to have. And while his mentor dies he then starts communicating with him through the force, and is also replaced by another mentor. None of these impacts linger - he shrugs them right off. Nor do they actually deter them from his medium and long term goals.

And they absolutely pale in comparison to seeing on your watch your nephew (entrusted into your care) turn evil, slaughter the other kids entrusted into your care, and then becoming a leader of the next iteration of a fascist empire in the galaxy. This is a new experience, and one that he has a difficult time processing before, in the end, doing what needs to be done.


Regrading RotJ - yes, hope is given to all (Skywalker becomes a legend) but the narrative is one of passivity - greatness comes from greatness - from a practically hereditary elite. That's what is so significant about Rey being no one (or what would have been significant about Luke being no one - although turns out he wasn't, and even in ANH his father was someone important, murdered by the chief villain). It is the difference between experiencing hope through belief in a savior who will come and rescue you, and experiencing hope as being empowered to rescue yourself.

It is really the prequels that reframe the OT as the former. Where hope comes from isn't something that the OT addresses head on.

And the new story doesn't tell us that you always fail in the end anyway. In fact it says the exact opposite - that there are times in our lives we do fail but heroes pick themselves up and move on. there's an entire scene about it, embedded in an entire movie about it.


Our lives end when we die. History ends when we all die. Prior to that they have chapters, and these chapters will contain successes and failures. Emotional growth (and heroism) is about learning how to keep picking yourself up and fighting even when you do fail. And tellingly, both Han and Luke are given the opportunity to powerfully learn that lesson in these new films. So does Leia to that end.

That exchange flattered neither of you. If I had the time I'd just go back and delete those pages. You'd both be better off just ceasing to discuss it.

Lv you called us dense, obtuse, and said we have no basic understanding of how art works

You both are being idiots and ruining the discussion right now. Admit it. Drop it. Move on.

No I did not. I said one particular thing stip said struck me as a dense and obtuse point to make, which I still think. You guys take my criticisms of your arguments personally, even when I don’t intend them to be. dime is the one who kept making this personal. I just wanted to discuss the movies.

I Didn’t get personal at any point. You suddenly start telling us we all should die and I’m a Nazi and should get hit by a train etc. That’s personal.


Ugh. Onwards!!!

what Logan does with Wolverine and Prof X (especially given how days of future past ended) is not at all dissimilar to what the new movies do with the OT characters

That’s funny you see that. I’ve seen that thrown at it as a criticism of Disney just imposing the marvel model on Star Wars and it’s all being formatted and ruined as a result.
I don’t see it myself but that comparison with Logan is there for sure.