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Well?
Loved it - among the best Star Wars Movie 38%  38%  [ 24 ]
Really liked it, but not one of the best 19%  19%  [ 12 ]
Liked it - it's Star Wars 16%  16%  [ 10 ]
Ehhh 21%  21%  [ 13 ]
I miss the prequels 6%  6%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 63
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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi -spoilers start 3
PostPosted: Wed January 17, 2018 1:04 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi -spoilers start 3
PostPosted: Wed January 17, 2018 1:43 pm 
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dimejinky99 wrote:
LV went full we’re all dickheads and nazis apparently, then verklempt.

to be fair, dime, you basically told him he didn't know what he was talking about in Star Wars, which you kind of do sometimes to people who may not know as much about the deepest corners of SW Cannon. Not everyone knows as much as you about the SW universe, but we are allowed to have negative opinions about it just the same. *shrugs*

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi -spoilers start 3
PostPosted: Wed January 17, 2018 1:44 pm 
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But then it took a weird turn and you both were assholes to each other.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi -spoilers start 3
PostPosted: Wed January 17, 2018 1:49 pm 
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It’s all fun and games until someone loses an eye.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi -spoilers start 3
PostPosted: Wed January 17, 2018 2:03 pm 
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E.H. Ruddock wrote:
But then it took a weird turn and you both were assholes to each other.



Nobody was insulting him. He was being a dick to Strat and then stip and when called on it he kicked off. Really no need for it and I was trying to make a laugh out of it to move past it. Almost worked too then he’s throwing anti Semite around and telling people to die.
But of an overreaction in fairness.

*its a beat for beat repeat of the TFA thread. No inspiration. RM is creatively spent.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi -spoilers start 3
PostPosted: Wed January 17, 2018 2:14 pm 
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dime, if you truly can’t see that you were being a huge prick to me without cause, then you have zero self-awareness. That’s what instigated the chaos.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi -spoilers start 3
PostPosted: Wed January 17, 2018 2:19 pm 
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dimejinky99 wrote:
You have a completely different and flawed understanding of the saga and everything contained within.
You’re wrong to begin with

This is what I'm talking about though, dime. Your understanding of the saga is the only right one, I 'spose.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi -spoilers start 3
PostPosted: Wed January 17, 2018 2:25 pm 
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E.H. Ruddock wrote:
dimejinky99 wrote:
You have a completely different and flawed understanding of the saga and everything contained within.
You’re wrong to begin with

This is what I'm talking about though, dime. Your understanding of the saga is the only right one, I 'spose.



Not at all. I wish. But when you don’t have a basic understanding of how characters in a universe or how that universe itself works, you’re building castles on sand then speaking about it and criticising others and telling them they’re wrong.


Can we move on?

The last Jedi has been completely pulled from Chinese cinemas after making only $31 million.
They have to be rethinking even releasing them over there, at this point.
https://screenrant.com/star-wars-last-j ... -theaters/

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi -spoilers start 3
PostPosted: Wed January 17, 2018 2:31 pm 
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Jesus fucking Christ I never told anyone they’re wrong. YOU DID

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi -spoilers start 3
PostPosted: Wed January 17, 2018 2:40 pm 
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LoathedVermin72 wrote:
Jesus fucking Christ I never told anyone they’re wrong. YOU DID
dimejinky99 wrote:
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
dimejinky99 wrote:
You have a completely different and flawed understanding of the saga and everything contained within.
You’re wrong to begin with

This is what I'm talking about though, dime. Your understanding of the saga is the only right one, I 'spose.



Not at all. I wish. But when you don’t have a basic understanding of how characters in a universe or how that universe itself works

So, that's not what you said, but it's what you said?

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi -spoilers start 3
PostPosted: Wed January 17, 2018 2:41 pm 
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In all seriousness, I'm curious as to how his "understanding" of the universe is wrong? Couldn't people interpret these movies differently?

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi -spoilers start 3
PostPosted: Wed January 17, 2018 2:46 pm 
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E.H. Ruddock wrote:
In all seriousness, I'm curious as to how his "understanding" of the universe is wrong? Couldn't people interpret these movies differently?

No

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi -spoilers start 3
PostPosted: Wed January 17, 2018 3:10 pm 
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Anders wrote:
stip wrote:
These new movies actually expand on those themes. Everything pretty much breaks right for our heroes in RoTJ. The only film where there are costs is Empire, all of which are immediately undone (with no lasting impact) by the end of the Jabba sequence in Jedi. What happens if you hit a setback? What happens if you fail? How do you hold onto hope, redemption, becoming a better person when not only are there failures, but you are in some way instrumental in that failure in a deeply personal way.

There is also the democratization of these themes. A New Hope begins with Luke as a farm boy who does great things. Even a small person can change the world and overcome great evil. By the end of Return of the Jedi this is a narrow story about a small group of people who are all related to each other, or their close personal friends. As Rian Johnson said in that piece Dime quoted a few pages back, turns out not everyone can become president. These new stories take us back to the point of a New Hope, which is that everyone can.


In ANH we learn that Luke's family is killed, he is an orphan, he was the son of a great pilot and warrior, he is left with nothing but a mentor (who used to be his old neighbour), and then the mentior is killed in front of him. Leaving him with nothing but his family legacy and his new friends. I would say those costs are about as great as any has faced. However, Luke always faces his fears head on, and does what needs to be done.

You are completely wrong about Return Of The Jedi being narrow. By it being about friends and family, and overcoming the odds, they gave hope to all. They helped liberate all. The new story tells us that even if you do overcome, you are destined to fail in the end anyway.



Completely wrong is a pretty bold statement, Anders.


Regarding ANH - the death of luke's family is treated as a rite of passage. He looks sad for a few moments and then decides to go off and have the adventure he always wanted to have. And while his mentor dies he then starts communicating with him through the force, and is also replaced by another mentor. None of these impacts linger - he shrugs them right off. Nor do they actually deter them from his medium and long term goals.

And they absolutely pale in comparison to seeing on your watch your nephew (entrusted into your care) turn evil, slaughter the other kids entrusted into your care, and then becoming a leader of the next iteration of a fascist empire in the galaxy. This is a new experience, and one that he has a difficult time processing before, in the end, doing what needs to be done.


Regrading RotJ - yes, hope is given to all (Skywalker becomes a legend) but the narrative is one of passivity - greatness comes from greatness - from a practically hereditary elite. That's what is so significant about Rey being no one (or what would have been significant about Luke being no one - although turns out he wasn't, and even in ANH his father was someone important, murdered by the chief villain). It is the difference between experiencing hope through belief in a savior who will come and rescue you, and experiencing hope as being empowered to rescue yourself.

It is really the prequels that reframe the OT as the former. Where hope comes from isn't something that the OT addresses head on.

And the new story doesn't tell us that you always fail in the end anyway. In fact it says the exact opposite - that there are times in our lives we do fail but heroes pick themselves up and move on. there's an entire scene about it, embedded in an entire movie about it.


Our lives end when we die. History ends when we all die. Prior to that they have chapters, and these chapters will contain successes and failures. Emotional growth (and heroism) is about learning how to keep picking yourself up and fighting even when you do fail. And tellingly, both Han and Luke are given the opportunity to powerfully learn that lesson in these new films. So does Leia to that end.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi -spoilers start 3
PostPosted: Wed January 17, 2018 3:12 pm 
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LoathedVermin72 wrote:
Jesus fucking Christ I never told anyone they’re wrong. YOU DID


That exchange flattered neither of you. If I had the time I'd just go back and delete those pages. You'd both be better off just ceasing to discuss it.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi -spoilers start 3
PostPosted: Wed January 17, 2018 3:14 pm 
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:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi -spoilers start 3
PostPosted: Wed January 17, 2018 3:20 pm 
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Lv you called us dense, obtuse, and said we have no basic understanding of how art works

You both are being idiots and ruining the discussion right now. Admit it. Drop it. Move on.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi -spoilers start 3
PostPosted: Wed January 17, 2018 3:24 pm 
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Strat wrote:
Lv you called us dense, obtuse, and said we have no basic understanding of how art works

You both are being idiots and ruining the discussion right now. Admit it. Drop it. Move on.

No I did not. I said one particular thing stip said struck me as a dense and obtuse point to make, which I still think. You guys take my criticisms of your arguments personally, even when I don’t intend them to be. dime is the one who kept making this personal. I just wanted to discuss the movies.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi -spoilers start 3
PostPosted: Wed January 17, 2018 3:27 pm 
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LoathedVermin72 wrote:
Strat wrote:
Lv you called us dense, obtuse, and said we have no basic understanding of how art works

You both are being idiots and ruining the discussion right now. Admit it. Drop it. Move on.

No I did not. I said one particular thing stip said struck me as a dense and obtuse point to make, which I still think. You guys take my criticisms of your arguments personally, even when I don’t intend them to be. dime is the one who kept making this personal. I just wanted to discuss the movies.



I Didn’t get personal at any point. You suddenly start telling us we all should die and I’m a Nazi and should get hit by a train etc. That’s personal.


Ugh. Onwards!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi -spoilers start 3
PostPosted: Wed January 17, 2018 3:28 pm 
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what Logan does with Wolverine and Prof X (especially given how days of future past ended) is not at all dissimilar to what the new movies do with the OT characters

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi -spoilers start 3
PostPosted: Wed January 17, 2018 3:30 pm 
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stip wrote:
what Logan does with Wolverine and Prof X (especially given how days of future past ended) is not at all dissimilar to what the new movies do with the OT characters



That’s funny you see that. I’ve seen that thrown at it as a criticism of Disney just imposing the marvel model on Star Wars and it’s all being formatted and ruined as a result.
I don’t see it myself but that comparison with Logan is there for sure.

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