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 Post subject: Re: #HaydeninIX #BringBackAnakin
PostPosted: Wed August 08, 2018 7:08 pm 
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Yeah, it's not a perfect analogy but the point stands.


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 Post subject: Re: #HaydeninIX #BringBackAnakin
PostPosted: Wed August 08, 2018 7:11 pm 
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wease wrote:
Strat wrote:
wease wrote:
dimejinky99 wrote:
If you don’t think they’re not going to put the main character and reason for the first two trilogies into the final chapter of the final trilogy, simply cos you don’t want it, you’re gonna be sorely disappointed I’d say.

Read your history. Vader was NOT the reason for the original trilogy. And he most certainly was NOT the main character. That was Luke’s tale that got bastardized into becoming the overall resolution of Anakin Skywalker by some not-so-clever retconning by Lucas. In the original movie, Vader was little more than a super powerful henchman subservient to Tarkin. We know nothing about anything beyond that role at this point because nothing was written establishing else. To suggest he’s the main character and reason for the OT is silly enough, but to claim he’s the main character in the original movie is ludricous.

"Theres still good in him, i feel it"

yes, the story was Luke, but to suggest that the redemption of Darth Vader didnt exist in the OT is wrong.

Not in the original movie. There’s nothing in there about it at all.

Huh? Wease youre killing me.

Lukes entire story arc ends with him going to see his father and try to turn him back to the light side because he senses good in him. This is why he heads to see the emperor and vader in ROTJ.


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 Post subject: Re: #HaydeninIX #BringBackAnakin
PostPosted: Wed August 08, 2018 7:12 pm 
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dimejinky99 wrote:
wease wrote:
dimejinky99 wrote:
If you don’t think they’re not going to put the main character and reason for the first two trilogies into the final chapter of the final trilogy, simply cos you don’t want it, you’re gonna be sorely disappointed I’d say.

Read your history. Vader was NOT the reason for the original trilogy. And he most certainly was NOT the main character. That was Luke’s tale that got bastardized into becoming the overall resolution of Anakin Skywalker by some not-so-clever retconning by Lucas. In the original movie, Vader was little more than a super powerful henchman subservient to Tarkin. We know nothing about anything beyond that role at this point because nothing was written establishing else. To suggest he’s the main character and reason for the OT is silly enough, but to claim he’s the main character in the original movie is ludricous.



Read your history?

Im not responding to that. Anakin is the chosen one. The entire prequels are about that
You don’t have a follow up trilogy without him. That rest of them is his son and his redemption though his son.

But not when they were made. The redemption came more as the prequel trilogy was released. Yes, it happened, but that wasn’t the overall focus.

And I meant read the Renzler book on the original movie and Empire with the evolution of Vader. They were never meant to be be centered on Vader or his redemption.


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 Post subject: Re: #HaydeninIX #BringBackAnakin
PostPosted: Wed August 08, 2018 7:13 pm 
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Strat wrote:
wease wrote:
Strat wrote:
wease wrote:
dimejinky99 wrote:
If you don’t think they’re not going to put the main character and reason for the first two trilogies into the final chapter of the final trilogy, simply cos you don’t want it, you’re gonna be sorely disappointed I’d say.

Read your history. Vader was NOT the reason for the original trilogy. And he most certainly was NOT the main character. That was Luke’s tale that got bastardized into becoming the overall resolution of Anakin Skywalker by some not-so-clever retconning by Lucas. In the original movie, Vader was little more than a super powerful henchman subservient to Tarkin. We know nothing about anything beyond that role at this point because nothing was written establishing else. To suggest he’s the main character and reason for the OT is silly enough, but to claim he’s the main character in the original movie is ludricous.

"Theres still good in him, i feel it"

yes, the story was Luke, but to suggest that the redemption of Darth Vader didnt exist in the OT is wrong.

Not in the original movie. There’s nothing in there about it at all.

Huh? Wease youre killing me.

Lukes entire story arc ends with him going to see his father and try to turn him back to the light side because he senses good in him. This is why he heads to see the emperor and vader in ROTJ.


"Not in the original movie"

Sorry, missed that point by you.


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 Post subject: Re: #HaydeninIX #BringBackAnakin
PostPosted: Wed August 08, 2018 7:14 pm 
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durdencommatyler wrote:
wease wrote:
durdencommatyler wrote:
wease wrote:
durdencommatyler wrote:
wease wrote:
durdencommatyler wrote:
VinylGuy wrote:
durdencommatyler wrote:
VinylGuy wrote:
durdencommatyler wrote:
VinylGuy wrote:
Guys, its hinted in TFA that Anakin did appeared to Kylo.

From a certain point of view, sure. It can certainly be interpreted that way.


Being that jj is back, i guess he will give us more from that.

If that's what he intended in the first place, I'm sure he will. But it's pretty open to interpretation.


What do you want to see? Anakin being the puppetmaster for Kylo? Something else? Anakin being divided in two force ghosts?

I've said before, I want to see something like Force Ghost Luke bringing in Force Ghost Anakin to talk to Kylo as a last resort to turning him from total destruction and the Dark Side.

It would be great to see Luke "haunt" Kylo through the movie but see him fail to turn Kylo on his own. So Luke goes to Anakin and convinces him to try one last time because he might be the only one Kylo will listen to.

Just one scene with Anakin as a Force Ghost. That's it.


I could not be more against this plan.

Why?

I just think it’s wrong to have Christensen as the Force Ghost for one thing. I think it was a terrible idea at the time and I still do. It worked better as the broken old man/machine being “normal” in the Force than it did to de-age him 30 years. If he gets younger again, then Obi-Wan should have, as well. And don’t give me the bullshit cop out that he went back to when he was good. He was good at the very end of his life so that’s the last time he was good.

Having said that, I, in no way, shape or form want to see him reprise his role as Anakin as a Force Ghost.

Ah. I see. Well that's not really my angle or what I was getting at but whatever. Hopefully, you don't have to see it.

But you want FG Luke to bring in FG Anakin. What other inference is there?

I was merely trying to say I want to see Anakin in a scene. I don't care whether or not the character is played by Hayden. I'm in favor of the character's inclusion, is all. It sounded to me like you were opposed even to that.

No. I’m not necessarily opposed to the inclusion of him as a character. I AM opposed to Christensen representing that character.


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 Post subject: Re: #HaydeninIX #BringBackAnakin
PostPosted: Wed August 08, 2018 7:18 pm 
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Strat wrote:
Strat wrote:
wease wrote:
Strat wrote:
wease wrote:
dimejinky99 wrote:
If you don’t think they’re not going to put the main character and reason for the first two trilogies into the final chapter of the final trilogy, simply cos you don’t want it, you’re gonna be sorely disappointed I’d say.

Read your history. Vader was NOT the reason for the original trilogy. And he most certainly was NOT the main character. That was Luke’s tale that got bastardized into becoming the overall resolution of Anakin Skywalker by some not-so-clever retconning by Lucas. In the original movie, Vader was little more than a super powerful henchman subservient to Tarkin. We know nothing about anything beyond that role at this point because nothing was written establishing else. To suggest he’s the main character and reason for the OT is silly enough, but to claim he’s the main character in the original movie is ludricous.

"Theres still good in him, i feel it"

yes, the story was Luke, but to suggest that the redemption of Darth Vader didnt exist in the OT is wrong.

Not in the original movie. There’s nothing in there about it at all.

Huh? Wease youre killing me.

Lukes entire story arc ends with him going to see his father and try to turn him back to the light side because he senses good in him. This is why he heads to see the emperor and vader in ROTJ.


"Not in the original movie"

Sorry, missed that point by you.


No problem. The entire point of the first movie was “small town farm boy gets out and experiences the larger world.” Obi-Wan explained it well. That’s the whole focus of. It everything else has been shoehorned in and tried to make that first one fit the “overall” arc. Hell, Darth is even his first name in it, not a title.


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 Post subject: Re: #HaydeninIX #BringBackAnakin
PostPosted: Wed August 08, 2018 7:25 pm 
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It's probably good to keep in mind though that Lucas's original vision was one massive movie. His script for one film kept getting bloated and so he decided to divide the major beats into three movies. In his mind though, originally, the trilogy was Act One, Act Two, and Act Three of one film. Obviously, things changed and got fleshed out over the course of making three movies. But the story was always about more than "farm kid makes good." That was just the beginning. That was always just act one.


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 Post subject: Re: #HaydeninIX #BringBackAnakin
PostPosted: Wed August 08, 2018 10:54 pm 
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durdencommatyler wrote:
It's probably good to keep in mind though that Lucas's original vision was one massive movie. His script for one film kept getting bloated and so he decided to divide the major beats into three movies. In his mind though, originally, the trilogy was Act One, Act Two, and Act Three of one film. Obviously, things changed and got fleshed out over the course of making three movies. But the story was always about more than "farm kid makes good." That was just the beginning. That was always just act one.

Well, yes and no. If you haven’t, I really recommend you read the Rinzler book(s). It’s not really as simple as that. Also, this https://drbeat.li/album/Bücher/The_Secret_History_of_Star_Wars.pdf

Integral reading if you really want to know how it all began and came to be.

Copy and paste the address. The link only half worked for some reason


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 Post subject: Re: #HaydeninIX #BringBackAnakin
PostPosted: Wed August 08, 2018 10:59 pm 
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I'm just going by Lucas's own words in the Empire of Dreams doc, as well as other places.


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 Post subject: Re: #HaydeninIX #BringBackAnakin
PostPosted: Wed August 08, 2018 11:01 pm 
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durdencommatyler wrote:
I'm just going by Lucas's own words in the Empire of Dreams doc, as well as other places.

Yeah, you can’t really do that. His own words changed quite a bit over time. And I really love that doc, too.


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 Post subject: Re: #HaydeninIX #BringBackAnakin
PostPosted: Wed August 08, 2018 11:08 pm 
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wease wrote:
durdencommatyler wrote:
I'm just going by Lucas's own words in the Empire of Dreams doc, as well as other places.

Yeah, you can’t really do that. His own words changed quite a bit over time. And I really love that doc, too.

Dude, trust me, I'm way more on your side on this. I said after my PT rewatch that you could basically cut Anakin from the movies and they'd be largely the same. The PT is not "about" Anakin Skywalker. And the OT isn't "about" Darth Vader.

Lucas clearly retconned the notion that the whole thing is about the rise/fall/redemption of Anakin.

And I'm well aware how often Lucas changes his story or adds new elements.


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 Post subject: Re: #HaydeninIX #BringBackAnakin
PostPosted: Thu August 09, 2018 1:01 am 
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durdencommatyler wrote:
wease wrote:
durdencommatyler wrote:
I'm just going by Lucas's own words in the Empire of Dreams doc, as well as other places.

Yeah, you can’t really do that. His own words changed quite a bit over time. And I really love that doc, too.

Dude, trust me, I'm way more on your side on this. I said after my PT rewatch that you could basically cut Anakin from the movies and they'd be largely the same. The PT is not "about" Anakin Skywalker. And the OT isn't "about" Darth Vader.

Lucas clearly retconned the notion that the whole thing is about the rise/fall/redemption of Anakin.

And I'm well aware how often Lucas changes his story or adds new elements.


As long as we’re on the same side. That’s all that matters to me. Hopefully we can go even more in depth when we meet in October.


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 Post subject: Re: #HaydeninIX #BringBackAnakin
PostPosted: Thu August 09, 2018 7:47 am 
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Wease is going to go full LV when Anakin portrayed by Hayden appears on screen in 9


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 Post subject: Re: #HaydeninIX #BringBackAnakin
PostPosted: Thu August 09, 2018 10:45 am 
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He might.


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 Post subject: Re: #HaydeninIX #BringBackAnakin
PostPosted: Thu August 09, 2018 12:42 pm 
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dimejinky99 wrote:
Wease is going to go full LV when Anakin portrayed by Hayden appears on screen in 9

I will not be happy about this either. That Anakin isn't the redeemed Anakin. Fuck that guy

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 Post subject: Re: #HaydeninIX #BringBackAnakin
PostPosted: Thu August 09, 2018 12:46 pm 
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E.H. Ruddock wrote:
dimejinky99 wrote:
Wease is going to go full LV when Anakin portrayed by Hayden appears on screen in 9

I will not be happy about this either. That Anakin isn't the redeemed Anakin. Fuck that guy

I fucking love you.


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 Post subject: Re: #HaydeninIX #BringBackAnakin
PostPosted: Thu August 09, 2018 1:00 pm 
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Change is the only constant.

This isn’t even change. Anakin was always Anakin. Vader was a stage he went through. He became Anakin again. You guys seem to miss this.


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 Post subject: Re: #HaydeninIX #BringBackAnakin
PostPosted: Thu August 09, 2018 1:15 pm 
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dimejinky99 wrote:
Change is the only constant.

This isn’t even change. Anakin was always Anakin. Vader was a stage he went through. He became Anakin again. You guys seem to miss this.

Thanks for 'splaining to my dumb ass, clearly you are the only one that gets Star Wars more than anyone else. The Anakin that was redeemed wasn't the young Anakin, he was old and broken. That's who should appear if a force ghost does appear.

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 Post subject: Re: #HaydeninIX #BringBackAnakin
PostPosted: Thu August 09, 2018 1:23 pm 
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wease wrote:
dimejinky99 wrote:
If you don’t think they’re not going to put the main character and reason for the first two trilogies into the final chapter of the final trilogy, simply cos you don’t want it, you’re gonna be sorely disappointed I’d say.

Read your history. Vader was NOT the reason for the original trilogy. And he most certainly was NOT the main character. That was Luke’s tale that got bastardized into becoming the overall resolution of Anakin Skywalker by some not-so-clever retconning by Lucas. In the original movie, Vader was little more than a super powerful henchman subservient to Tarkin. We know nothing about anything beyond that role at this point because nothing was written establishing else. To suggest he’s the main character and reason for the OT is silly enough, but to claim he’s the main character in the original movie is ludricous.



I’ll refer you to this dear ruddo


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 Post subject: Re: #HaydeninIX #BringBackAnakin
PostPosted: Thu August 09, 2018 1:25 pm 
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E.H. Ruddock wrote:
dimejinky99 wrote:
Change is the only constant.

This isn’t even change. Anakin was always Anakin. Vader was a stage he went through. He became Anakin again. You guys seem to miss this.

Thanks for 'splaining to my dumb ass, clearly you are the only one that gets Star Wars more than anyone else. The Anakin that was redeemed wasn't the young Anakin, he was old and broken. That's who should appear if a force ghost does appear.



A force ghost can appear as a tree stump if it so damn well wishes. This isn’t hard to grasp.

Anakin appears as the last moment he was Anakin before he was corrupted and fallen.

This isn’t that fucking hard to understand. For the character and his vanity to a degree. But it’s also what Lucas wanted.


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