Red Mosquito • View topic - Star Wars : The Mandalorian (Disney+ 2019)

epilogue · **Posted:** Wed January 13, 2021 3:29 am

wease wrote:

Until this thread, I never even thought of Luke's fight and Vader's together. Never even occurred to me.

Really? It's the first thing I thought of. And if Twitter is any indication, I'm not the only one. A couple of podcasts I listen to did long segments about it.

Obviously it's not literally shot-for-shot. That's hyperbole. But they borrowed a lot from the Vader scene and it's clearly intentional. Luke does almost every move that Vader does.

I actually rolled my eyes watching it. Took me out of the moment a bit. But most everything else about the episode was great and saved it.

epilogue · **Posted:** Wed January 13, 2021 3:31 am

B wrote:

epilogue wrote:

Where the show stumbles, for me, is its reliance on nostalgia. The iconography never feels earned, it just feels like a cheap storytelling trick.

I actually did read your post. Well most of it. Not surprisingly, I feel the exact opposite as you, paragraph for paragraph, but I think this sentence captures where I think you're most wrong about the callbacks in Mandalorian.

The callbacks in Mandalorian put us in the universe, but the story never relies on them.
- Take out the ice cream maker. Same things happen.
- Any other Jedi sends him to the beacon. Same things happen.
- Boba Fett never shows up. Same things happen.
- Luke shows up. Well, ok, you got me there.

But in every situation where they put in fan service, it enhances the story and shows us where in the world we are without taking it off course. It like if you made a sequel to the Wizard of Oz and called it pandering b/c they ran into a yellow brick road. We're in Oz. The fucking road is everywhere.

We're in Star Wars. All the cool shit happens on Tatooine. Banthas and Jawas and Sandpeople are everywhere.

I'm a little bummed that we appear to be headed to Mandalore in Season 3.

But again, that's largely stuff I'm not talking about. Your Oz analogy is apt. I don't have a problem with seeing familiar things. It would be weird if we didn't.

epilogue · **Posted:** Wed January 13, 2021 3:32 am

B wrote:

Joey, also ... it's not that I think you're wrong for liking TROS. Like what you like. It's that your criticisms of Mandalorian, appear to be doubled down on in TROS.

You're gonna have to explain this.

epilogue · **Posted:** Wed January 13, 2021 3:33 am

blueviper wrote:

epilogue wrote:

Monkey_Driven wrote:

epilogue wrote:

Monkey_Driven wrote:

I can understand both sides of this conversation.

About 85 percent of the Mandalorian takes place on completely new or relatively unexplored planets/locales, so I wouldn't say it is overly reliant on nostalgia. The Tatooine episodes are probably the weakest the whole series.

For me, the issue isn't locale or new/old planets. That's not at all what I mean when I talk about exploiting or being reliant on nostalgia. There's no reason to avoid the familiar just because it's familiar. I'm not even talking about saying things like "highest 'm' count we've ever seen" or even the fact Boba Fett (though I do think he walks the line a bit).

Like, including Luke Skywalker wasn't a about relying on nostalgia. His appearance was necessary for the story being told. He is what the story required. If it had been any other Jedi it might have been super weird. Luke was the right and necessary story choice.

Now, was doing a shot-for-shot remake of the *one* post-OT scene that was touted by the vast majority of SW fans necessary for the story? To me it didn't work. It reeked of the kind of fan service (which, again, isn't a bad thing in and of itself) that I don't like, that the show keeps dipping into.

What scene are you referring to?

The Vader hallway scene in Rogue One.

When I first watched the Luke episode I didn’t even put two and two together regarding Luke’s hallway season vs. Vader’s in Rogue One. I only caught it when I saw some reaction videos on YouTube that brought it up.

That Jedi stuff was great against the dark troopers, but I was more excited with Luke being Jedi-like with Grogu and Mando. And Mando connecting with Grogu. And R2 calming down Grogu. And the emotional elevator stare with Grogu and mando. Such earnest, feel good scenes that remind me of the OT.

Grogu's goodbye is the best part of the episode. I loved that stuff.

dimejinky99 · **Joined:** Wed January 02, 2013 12:35 am **Posts:** 35495

B wrote:

epilogue wrote:

Where the show stumbles, for me, is its reliance on nostalgia. The iconography never feels earned, it just feels like a cheap storytelling trick.

I actually did read your post. Well most of it. Not surprisingly, I feel the exact opposite as you, paragraph for paragraph, but I think this sentence captures where I think you're most wrong about the callbacks in Mandalorian.

The callbacks in Mandalorian put us in the universe, but the story never relies on them.
- Take out the ice cream maker. Same things happen.
- Any other Jedi sends him to the beacon. Same things happen.
- Boba Fett never shows up. Same things happen.
- Luke shows up. Well, ok, you got me there.

But in every situation where they put in fan service, it enhances the story and shows us where in the world we are without taking it off course. It like if you made a sequel to the Wizard of Oz and called it pandering b/c they ran into a yellow brick road. We're in Oz. The fucking road is everywhere.

We're in Star Wars. All the cool shit happens on Tatooine. Banthas and Jawas and Sandpeople are everywhere.

I'm a little bummed that we appear to be headed to Mandalore in Season 3.

I’m agreeing with B

Somebody... hold me

B · **Posted:** Wed January 13, 2021 12:08 pm

epilogue wrote:

B wrote:

Joey, also ... it's not that I think you're wrong for liking TROS. Like what you like. It's that your criticisms of Mandalorian, appear to be doubled down on in TROS.

You're gonna have to explain this.

I thought I have.

epilogue · **Posted:** Wed January 13, 2021 1:20 pm

B wrote:

epilogue wrote:

B wrote:

Joey, also ... it's not that I think you're wrong for liking TROS. Like what you like. It's that your criticisms of Mandalorian, appear to be doubled down on in TROS.

You're gonna have to explain this.

I thought I have.

Then I wasn't clear or you didn't listen to what I said because that's not correct.

epilogue · **Posted:** Wed January 13, 2021 1:51 pm

Re-reading this, it seems like some of the confusion and misunderstanding has to do with specifically with "callbacks". It seems like that's the focus for B especially.

I'm not talking about callbacks. I'm talking about a reliance on nostalgia. I'm taking about tone and storytelling. Not referencing a past event or a cameo from a familiar character.

I don't remember a lot of what I think you mean as callbacks in RoS. I'm not saying they aren't there I just really don't remember many, so they obviously didn't bother me. Unless we're just talking about Palpatine and the Jedi voices at the end? I remember those.

The bottom line is that the way these things (nostalgia and callbacks both) are employed in RoS don't bother me as much as they do in Mando. The opposite is true for others. It's just a preference thing.

I will say admit that it's all the other things I don't like about Mando (often looks cheap, it plays like a video game, terrible, hacky, dialogue, stiff performances, Pedro not in the suit much) that makes the nostalgia stuff so obvious and bothersome to me. If other aspects of the show were better I probably wouldn't notice or care about this other stuff.

I'm sure most of you would say the same about RoS. And I can certainly understand that.

Anders · **Posted:** Wed January 13, 2021 1:54 pm

I think both (Mando and TROS) are excellent and highly entertaining, just the way Star Wars should be.

dimejinky99 · **Joined:** Wed January 02, 2013 12:35 am **Posts:** 35495

epilogue wrote:

Re-reading this, it seems like some of the confusion and misunderstanding has to do with specifically with "callbacks". It seems like that's the focus for B especially.

I'm not talking about callbacks. I'm talking about a reliance on nostalgia. I'm taking about tone and storytelling. Not referencing a past event or a cameo from a familiar character.

I don't remember a lot of what I think you mean as callbacks in RoS. I'm not saying they aren't there I just really don't remember many, so they obviously didn't bother me. Unless we're just talking about Palpatine and the Jedi voices at the end? I remember those.

The bottom line is that the way these things (nostalgia and callbacks both) are employed in RoS don't bother me as much as they do in Mando. The opposite is true for others. It's just a preference thing.

I will say admit that it's all the other things I don't like about Mando (often looks cheap, it plays like a video game, terrible, hacky, dialogue, stiff performances, Pedro not in the suit much) that makes the nostalgia stuff so obvious and bothersome to me. If other aspects of the show were better I probably wouldn't notice or care about this other stuff.

I'm sure most of you would say the same about RoS. And I can certainly understand that.

You’re confusing reliance on nostalgia with what actually is Star Wars. I’ll refer you to my post about the design language.

epilogue · **Posted:** Wed January 13, 2021 2:13 pm

Anders wrote:

I think both (Mando and TROS) are excellent and highly entertaining, just the way Star Wars should be.

epilogue · **Posted:** Wed January 13, 2021 2:14 pm

dimejinky99 wrote:

epilogue wrote:

Re-reading this, it seems like some of the confusion and misunderstanding has to do with specifically with "callbacks". It seems like that's the focus for B especially.

I'm not talking about callbacks. I'm talking about a reliance on nostalgia. I'm taking about tone and storytelling. Not referencing a past event or a cameo from a familiar character.

I don't remember a lot of what I think you mean as callbacks in RoS. I'm not saying they aren't there I just really don't remember many, so they obviously didn't bother me. Unless we're just talking about Palpatine and the Jedi voices at the end? I remember those.

The bottom line is that the way these things (nostalgia and callbacks both) are employed in RoS don't bother me as much as they do in Mando. The opposite is true for others. It's just a preference thing.

I will say admit that it's all the other things I don't like about Mando (often looks cheap, it plays like a video game, terrible, hacky, dialogue, stiff performances, Pedro not in the suit much) that makes the nostalgia stuff so obvious and bothersome to me. If other aspects of the show were better I probably wouldn't notice or care about this other stuff.

I'm sure most of you would say the same about RoS. And I can certainly understand that.

You’re confusing reliance on nostalgia with what actually is Star Wars. I’ll refer you to my post about the design language.

Nope. I'm clear on your post. That's not what I'm doing. As I said before the design language is important. Not seeing those familiar things would be weird.

B · **Posted:** Wed January 13, 2021 2:29 pm

epilogue wrote:

B wrote:

epilogue wrote:

B wrote:

Joey, also ... it's not that I think you're wrong for liking TROS. Like what you like. It's that your criticisms of Mandalorian, appear to be doubled down on in TROS.

You're gonna have to explain this.

I thought I have.

Then I wasn't clear or you didn't listen to what I said because that's not correct.

Let's assume the latter.

Anders · **Posted:** Wed January 13, 2021 3:19 pm

Got Some wrote:

Are we ranking the episodes

16
14
13
9
15
8
7
11
1
6
12
10
2
3
4
5

I won’t do a rewatch just yet, so it will have to be mostly on memory.

13
16
3
14
2
8
15
7
1
11
9
12
10
4
5
6

B · **Posted:** Wed January 13, 2021 3:22 pm

Anders wrote:

Got Some wrote:

Are we ranking the episodes

16
14
13
9
15
8
7
11
1
6
12
10
2
3
4
5

I won’t do a rewatch just yet, so it will have to be mostly on memory.

13
16
3
14
2
8
15
7
1
11
9
12
10
4
5
6

You guys are both clearly wrong.

Anders · **Posted:** Wed January 13, 2021 3:50 pm

B wrote:

Anders wrote:

Got Some wrote:

Are we ranking the episodes

16
14
13
9
15
8
7
11
1
6
12
10
2
3
4
5

I won’t do a rewatch just yet, so it will have to be mostly on memory.

13
16
3
14
2
8
15
7
1
11
9
12
10
4
5
6

You guys are both clearly wrong.

We’ve shown ours, now show yours.

B · **Posted:** Wed January 13, 2021 3:58 pm

14
9
13
7
10
12
4
1
11
6
5
3
2
8
16
15

epilogue · **Posted:** Wed January 13, 2021 4:02 pm

I did my ranking back in December like a normal person!

epilogue wrote:

Let's rank The Mandalorian episodes!

Chapter 13: The Jedi (S2E5)
Chapter 11: The Heiress (S2E3)
Chapter 3: The Sin (S1E3)
Chapter 7: The Reckoning (S1E7)
Chapter 10: The Passenger (S2E2)

Chapter 14: The Tragedy (S2E6)
Chapter 15: The Believer (S2E7)
Chapter 2: The Child (S1E2)
Chapter 8: Redemption (S1E8)
Chapter 16: The Rescue (S2E8)
Chapter 12: The Seige (S2E4)
Chapter 6: The Prisoner (S1E6)

Chapter 1: The Mandalorian (S1E1)
Chapter 5: The Gunslinger (S1E5)
Chapter 9: The Marshal (S2E1)
Chapter 4: Sanctuary (S1E4)

Anders · **Posted:** Wed January 13, 2021 4:03 pm

Until your bottom three B, I don’t think our rankings are too different. Surprised by that bottom three though.

Monkey_Driven · **Posted:** Wed January 13, 2021 4:07 pm

I'm amazed at everyone's rankings.

Star Wars : The Mandalorian (Disney+ 2019)

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