Songs now being played in a lower key

[LawrenceOrbach]

Playing shorter shows and a less varied set list isn't the only new aspect of PJ live circa 2021-2022. I presume folks have noticed a number of songs are now being played in lower keys than their studio versions for the benefit of Ed's voice -- I particularly noticed it on "Satan's Bed" and "Go" on the Paris bootleg that was just released. They've definitely experimented with it on "Once," "Breath" and "Life Wasted" as well. Have people heard it on other live songs from recent shows?

[Birds in Hell]

They’ve been doing this on and off since around 2007 (IIRC).

[XWayne]

Yes it started in 2007 with Life Wasted and Worldwide Suicide (and potentially Comatose), and it got "worse" on the latter tours as brand new songs were directly played a half-step lower compared to the studio versions (see most of Backspacer with Got Some, The Fixer, Force of Nature..., or Getaway later). Who Ever Said in the Paris show is also played in a lower key, I was a bit disappointed as the Gigaton songs were apparently recorded considering the current capacities and limits of Ed's voice.

If I am not mistaken, a few regular songs have been played in a lower key on specific nights (State of Love and Trust, Do the Evolution) when Ed was struggling more than usual.

[warehouse]

do they tune their guitars different or just play lower chords?

[Birds in Hell]

The former.

[XWayne]

do they tune their guitars different or just play lower chords?

They use guitars with a lower tuning (so there is no need to use different chords, or face issues with open strings).
I should check some videos, I remember that Jeff's bass with the checkered pattern was a clear identifier for some of these songs.

[Birds in Hell]

It's his throat so I'm sure he knows better than I do, but it's never seemed to me that lowering the key of the songs really helps Ed sing them any better.

What seems to be particularly demanding on those songs isn't the pitch of the notes as such, it's more sudden jumps between low and high notes or sustained notes in the upper end of his range. When they play those songs in a lower key, he still seems to struggle just as much.

[Jorge]

Obviously some songs sound weaker and more deflated when played lower than we're used to, but I'm curious if anyone thinks there are songs that actually sound better when played lower? There's gotta be at least one

[warehouse]

probably the songs matt wrote

[Captain Termite]

Can someone explain this to me like I'm a dum-dum?

[Jorge]

Can someone explain this to me like I'm a dum-dum?

Songs are played in keys. Keys determine the pitch of the instruments. The higher the key, the higher Ed has to sing to fit the song (generally). Since singing really high is very difficult with increasing age + vocal wear, sometimes the band plays the songs with instruments that are tuned to a lower pitch. This makes the songs sound generally "lower" than the recorded versions, but it makes them easier for Ed to sing.

[Captain Termite]

Can someone explain this to me like I'm a dum-dum?

Songs are played in keys. Keys determine the pitch of the instruments. The higher the key, the higher Ed has to sing to fit the song (generally). Since singing really high is very difficult with increasing age + vocal wear, sometimes the band plays the songs with instruments that are tuned to a lower pitch. This makes the songs sound generally "lower" than the recorded versions, but it makes them easier for Ed to sing.

Thanks. I wouldn't have thought the instrumentation would have to (or tend to) match the vocals in that way.

I also sometimes read about Ed singing in a lower key than in studio versions. Are those the same songs as the ones being discussed in this thread?

[XWayne]

Obviously some songs sound weaker and more deflated when played lower than we're used to, but I'm curious if anyone thinks there are songs that actually sound better when played lower? There's gotta be at least one

If I am not mistaken, Crazy Mary is played live one full step lower than the recorded version for the Sweet Relief album.
It is a cover and I am more familiar with the live versions, but it might be one of the few exceptions where it benefits the song.

[Jorge]

Thanks. I wouldn't have thought the instrumentation would have to (or tend to) match the vocals in that way.

I also sometimes read about Ed singing in a lower key than in studio versions. Are those the same songs as the ones being discussed in this thread?

Well, I don't know if this is what you're referring to, but the reason I said "(generally)" is because you could still have the song in the original key but sing higher or lower by jumping an octave up or down. Think of the difference between the Christmas single version of "Drifting" vs. the Lost Dogs version. The key is the same in both versions (no instrumental change) but Ed is singing an octave higher in the Lost Dogs version while still being in the same key

[Captain Termite]

Thanks. I wouldn't have thought the instrumentation would have to (or tend to) match the vocals in that way.

I also sometimes read about Ed singing in a lower key than in studio versions. Are those the same songs as the ones being discussed in this thread?

Well, I don't know if this is what you're referring to, but the reason I said "(generally)" is because you could still have the song in the original key but sing higher or lower by jumping an octave up or down. Think of the difference between the Christmas single version of "Drifting" vs. the Lost Dogs version. The key is the same in both versions (no instrumental change) but Ed is singing an octave higher in the Lost Dogs version while still being in the same key

Interesting. From a dum-dum's perspective, I can certainly tell that his voice is higher in the Lost Dogs one, but have no idea how anyone could determine that it was from octave change versus key change. Similarly, any time I read about tempo/time etc in music and I try to understand, my brain just goes and hides under a pile of coats.

[Jorge]

Maybe this will start you on your music theory journey

[warehouse]

Obviously some songs sound weaker and more deflated when played lower than we're used to, but I'm curious if anyone thinks there are songs that actually sound better when played lower? There's gotta be at least one

If I am not mistaken, Crazy Mary is played live one full step lower than the recorded version for the Sweet Relief album.
It is a cover and I am more familiar with the live versions, but it might be one of the few exceptions where it benefits the song.

his voice sounds almost weird on the album version. this is a great example.

[Evvo]

It's been going on for quite a while now though I think it was brought into sharper relief on this tour because, as XWayne pointed out, some of the Gigaton songs being played in a lower key.

Songs like Go, Breath, Not For You, In Hiding and MYM were downtuned for the first time this year (or certainly against versions I heard in 2018). Satan's Bed was tuned down in 2018, and Save You in 2014. We'll probably not hear WWS again live but that was getting tuned down as early as 2010 on the Backspacer tour.

[XWayne]

I had some time to kill, and as I play the guitar I am quite interested in this topic, I checked the tuning of the songs played live.
I have checked the latest versions of each song to see if they were played in the same key as their studio counterpart, then went back on past tours and shows when the tuning was changed.
I have not checked all live versions, so I certainly miss potential one-off changes for some songs on specific dates.

I have put the full list under a spoiler tag as it is a bit long, but the main info is:
- there is a significant number of songs that have been tuned down in 2022, in particular Vs ones (Blood has not been played since 2018).
- several songs from Backspacer and Lightning Bolt were never played in their original tuning
- some Gigaton songs were initially played as on the album, then tuned down on later shows. For the other albums, the downtuning usually occurred on a new tour.
- some songs are played 1 full tone down. Listening to the original versions, then the 1/2 step down ones, then 1 step down ones is quite brutal...
- I had totally forgot the 2008 version of W.M.A.
- Mankind and Don't Gimme No Lip are downtuned. What's happening to you Stone ?

Spoiler: show

List of songs played in a different tuning live (compared to the studio version)

Ten:
Oceans - up to 2016-08-22, Chicago, IL ok -> 1/2 step down since 2018-07-10, Barcelona, Spain

Vs.:
Go - up to 2018-09-04, Boston, MA ok -> 1/2 step down on 2022-07-17, Paris, France (last played)
Glorified G - up to 2018-06-13, Amsterdam, Holland ok -> 1/2 step since 2022-05-07, Los Angeles, CA
Dissident - up to 2018-07-01, Praha, Czech Republic ok -> 1/2 step down since 2022-05-13, Oakland, CA
W.M.A. - up to 1995-02-18, Sendai, Japan ok -> 1 and 1/2 step down since 2008-06-14, Manchester, TN -> 2 and 1/2 step down since 2012-09-02, Philadelphia, PN
Rats - up to 2018-08-10, Seattle, WA ok -> 1/2 step down on 2022-07-09, London, England (last played)
Leash - up to 2022-05-07, Inglewood, CA ok -> 1/2 step down on 2022-07-09, London, England (last played)

Vitalogy:
Satan's Bed - up to 2014-06-29, Oslo, Norway ok -> 1/2 step down since 2015-11-20, Belo Horizonte, Brazil

No Code:
Habit - up to 2005-11-28, Porto Algere, Brazil ok -> 1/2 step down from 2009-10-30, Philadelphia, PA -> 1 step down since 2016-04-18, Hampton, VA
Mankind - up to 2018-07-17, London, England ok -> 1/2 step down on 2022-07-25, Amsterdam, Netherlands (last played)

* I'm Open * - played 1/2 step up on No Code. Played in regular tuning live.

Yield:
Faithfull - up to 2022-05-06, Los Angeles, LA ok -> 1/2 step down on 2022-07-09, London, England (last played)
No Way - up to 2013-11-24, Los Angeles, CA ok -> 1/2 step on 2014-10-20, Milwaukee, WI (last played)
In Hiding - up to 2018-08-10, Seattle, WA ok -> 1/2 step since 2022-06-23, Zurich, Switzerland

* Push Me, Pull Me * recorded 1/2 step lower. Played in regular tuning live.

Binaural:
Breakerfall - up to 2016-05-10, Toronto, ONT ok -> 1 step down on 2018-08-18, Chicago, IL (last played)
Evacuation - up to 2003-07-14, Holmdel, NJ ok -> 1/2 step down from 2008-06-17, Virginia Beach, VA -> 1 step down since 2014-06-16, Amsterdam, Netherlands

* Of the Girl * recorded 1/2 step lower. Played in regular tuning live.
* Soon Forget * recorded 1/2 step lower, played 1 step down on the 2000 tour, then regular uke tuning from 2002-12-06, Seattle, WA

Riot Act:
Save You - up to 2022-06-25, Imola, Italy ok -> 1/2 step down on 2022-07-08, London, England (last played)

Pearl Jam:
Life Wasted - up to 2007-06-08, Lisbon, Portugal ok -> 1/2 step down since 2007-06-21, Dusseldorf, Germany -> 1 step down since 2018-09-04, Boston, MA
World Wide Suicide - up to 2008-06-25, New York, NY ok -> 1/2 step down since 2009-08-17, Manchester, England
Comatose - up to 2009-10-06, Universal City, CA ok -> 1/2 step down since 2010-05-01, New Orleans, LA -> 1 step down on 2018-09-04, Boston, MA (last played)
Marker in the Sand - up to 2008-07-01, New York, NY ok -> 1/2 step down since 2009-09-28, Salt Lake City, UT (exception: 1 step down on 2009-11-29, Christhchurch, NZ)
Wasted Reprise - sometimes played 1/2 step lower in 2018
Army Reserve - up to 2010-05-20, New York, NY ok -> 1/2 step down since 2013-11-21, San Diego, CA -> 1 step down on 2018-09-02, Boston, MA (last played)

Backspacer:
Gonna See my Friend - always played 1/2 step down
Got Some - played 3 times standard, last on 2009-08-11, London, England -> 1/2 step down since 2009-08-13, Rotterdam, Netherlands -> 1 step down since 2018-03-16, Santiago, Chile
The Fixer - initially played 1/2 step down -> 1 step down on 2018-03-13, Santiago, Chile (last played)
Supersonic - always played 1/2 step down
Force of Nature - always played 1/2 step down
* The End * recorded 1/2 step lower, played with same tuning

Lightning Bolt:
Getaway - initially played 1/2 down -> 1 step down since 2016-04-11, Tampa, FL
Mind your Manners - normally standard. Played 1/2 step down on 2022-07-08, London, England. Back to standard on 2022-07-17, Paris, France
My Father's Son - always played 1/2 step down
Sirens - up to 2014-10-22, Denver, CO ok -> 1 step down on 2014-10-26, Moutain View, CA -> 1/2 step down since 2015-11-04, Santiago, Chile
Infallible - initially played 1/2 down -> 1 step down since 2016-04-21, Columbia, SC (last played)
Future Days - up to 2013-10-12 ok -> 1/2 step down since 2013-10-16, Worcester, MA

Gigaton:
Who Ever Said - up to 2022-07-14, Krakow, Poland ok -> 1/2 step down on 2022-07-17, Paris, France (last played)
Superblood Wolfmoon - up to 2022-06-18, Landgraaf, Netherlands ok -> 1/2 step down since 2022-06-21, Berlin, Germany
Quick Escape - up to 2022-06-30, Werchter, Belgium ok -> 1/2 step down since 2022-07-08, London, England
Never Destination - up to 2022-05-06, Inglewood, CA ok -> 1/2 stem down since 2022-06-28, Frankfurt, Germany

Lost Dogs:
Don't Gimme No Lip - up to 2014-10-22, Denver, CO ok -> 1/2 step down on 2018-08-22, Chicago, IL -> 1 step down on 2022-05-16, Fresno, CA (last played)
Leaving Here - up to 2014-07-08, Leeds, England ok -> 1 step down since 2015-11-07, Buenos Aires, Argentina
Hold On - Standard tuning. Played 1/2 step down only on 2014-06-26, Berlin, Germany
Hard to Imagine - up to 2022-07-14, Krakow, Poland ok -> 1/2 step down on 2022-07-25, Amsterdam, Netherlands (last played)

Misc:
Breath - up to 2018-08-18, Chicago, IL ok -> 1/2 step down on 2022-07-08, London, England (last played)
Crazy Mary - up to 1993-11-17, New Orleans, LA -> 1 step down since 2000-06-26, Hamburg, Germany

Last edited by XWayne on Tue August 30, 2022 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Jorge]

What are the worst sounding songs that you found? I remember a version of "Getaway" that was particularly bad