"I dont know guys, this song is missing something, what do you think?"

"Gee, i dont know, we've tried so many different things"

drummer "how about i just play too?"

It changes the feel completely. And I believe bass enters too. (and another guitar?) The whole song changes. Choosing to hold off on that until the middle of the verse is a very interesting choice. What choices on the middle albums are similar?

Seriously if you just listen to the first 30 seconds of Daughter you haven't heard the half of it. You have to listen to the whole thing.

its incredible how many songs on Binaural you don't have to go beyond the beginning. Some of them PEAK in the first 30 seconds (Grievance).

Uh, have you listened past the first 30 seconds of grievance? What are you talking about you mad man.

Or the bridges in evacuation

It's cool that you love Daughter. I do too. But starting with an acoustic guitar and then gradually layering more instruments on top of it as the song progresses is extremely basic song craftsmanship.

or the bridge and climax of nothing as it seems

or the change int he bridge of Light Years?

Or the outro of Parting Ways?

The glorious key change in Gods Dice?

IMO the best part of Grievance by far, especially live is the "Big eye, Big eye watching me." (NANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANA) "Haaave to WONderrr what IT seeees" part.

The song never reaches those heights again in my opinion after that. The build to that part and then that part is the best part.

Your avatar is perfect though.

Ok fine. And yet, as Ive said, they dont do even this BASIC (as you call it) song craftmanship on their middle albums.

And I would disagree with that statement in practice. I think its done impeccably well in Daughter.

In fact, Id say there are three songs that Pearl Jam has done that are INCREDIBLY laid out, a masterclass in laying out a song. Those three would be Daughter, Corduroy, and Betterman.

Okay, so you are a huge fan of the drums coming in at a later point.

I guess these songs do all have that in common, but I think its done amazingly on all three songs. All three songs you feel like you went on a journey by the time its done.

Yes they are working with simple elements. Its what they do with it though. When you reach the corduroy bridge and that climax it is one of the BEST MOMENTS IN THEIR CATALOG. Why? because of how they build to it. (And also incredibly smart and effective is the way they bring it back to that opening riff and you're just like O___O holy crap)

My mind is blown by how well laid out Corduroy is..

Which binaural or riot act songs are laid out as well. Im not asking which has a kooky time signature or an interesting scale, Im asking from a macro perspective...just the way the entire song is laid out from start to finish...which is especially impressive?

Yes, they are all very good songs that are pleasingly arranged. NO ONE IS ARGUING AGAINST THAT.

All of the songs I just listed.

Light Years is probably one of their worst laid out songs in my opinion. THAT is the one that is verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus, and there's little else interesting about it UNLIKE daughter which is not as simple as you guys make it sound. It needs to be about half as long as it actually is

Yes, and my argument is that the arrangement of these songs so far transcends the arrangement of the songs on their middle albums it is crazy

i would compare it to the GRRM books, A Song of Ice and Fire.

The first albums are the first books of the series. Just an amazingly laid out and told story. Straight to the point, expert pacing.

Then the middle albums are feast for crows, and dance with dragons. Bloated, 'esoteric', rambling. So many songs on Binaural are twice as long as they need to be. Light Years and Nothing as it Seems the chief offenders, which get 5+ minutes out of barely any content. I dont feel the runtime of either song is earned.