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The whole idea behind S/T's marketing push is "we're rocking again, we're not going to make weird art records anymore" - which is just kind of marketing gobbledygook, as Binaural and Riot Act aren't really anywhere near the extreme of being weird art records. And it doesn't really matter, as long as the results are good, and while I may think S/T is a step down from the previous records, it's still a good record in hindsight. But being around during the push of that record, it was just clearly a different approach then they'd taken before.
Anecdotally it fits though. I have two close friends that grew up loving Ten-Vitalogy era Pearl Jam with me but fell off with No Code. In both cases they came back to the band with the S/T album.
For better or worse S/T will always be the "return to form" album in my mind.
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Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 2:48 pm Posts: 47446
tragabigzanda wrote:
i kind of can't get behind this concept anymore, because S/T now feels to me like "back when they were still great," and the real drop off started with BS.
trag gets it
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Joined: Tue September 24, 2013 5:56 pm Posts: 47295 Location: In the oatmeal aisle wearing a Shellac shirt
E.H. Ruddock wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:
i kind of can't get behind this concept anymore, because S/T now feels to me like "back when they were still great," and the real drop off started with BS.
trag gets it
It'd be like trying to rank episodes of Seinfeld S7 with episodes of Young Sheldon S3. What are we even doing here?
My Post-Post-Riot-Act-Money-Grab (P-PRAMG) ranking is super easy to throw together, in order of release:
GSMF Got Some The Fixer Johnny Guitar Force of Nature My Father's Son Let the Records Play Who Ever Said DOTC Comes Then Goes
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 3:35 pm Posts: 32417 Location: Buenos Aires
PRAMG isn't even entirely about the music (even though I think S/T sucks ass). It's more about the sharp and sudden change in their business and marketing decisions, which happened to coincide with their turn to more accessible music
Joined: Tue September 24, 2013 5:56 pm Posts: 47295 Location: In the oatmeal aisle wearing a Shellac shirt
Jorge wrote:
PRAMG isn't even entirely about the music (even though I think S/T sucks ass). It's more about the sharp and sudden change in their business and marketing decisions, which happened to coincide with their turn to more accessible music
philosophically i completely agree. But in practice all we do is rank songs.
i kind of can't get behind this concept anymore, because S/T now feels to me like "back when they were still great," and the real drop off started with BS.
yeah, agreed.
Ill rank from BS onwards and in no particular order:
Got Some The Fixer Speed Of Sound Johnny Guitar Sirens Yellow Moon My Father Son Who Ever Said Dance Quick Escape 7 O clock Take The Long Way River Cross
Just going to note that they clearly changed their focus after Riot Act, but I don’t see things as decline per se. I think if self-titled as a change in direction and it was a fresh approach, a decline in both Backspacer and Lightning Bolt, and then Gigaton as the triumph of this approach, so a return to the quality they provided pre-Backspacer, and really even before that. Gigaton is to me the album they were reaching for after Riot Act. To be determined how Dark Matter fits into this narrative or possibly creates a new turn.
Just going to note that they clearly changed their focus after Riot Act, but I don’t see things as decline per se. I think if self-titled as a change in direction and it was a fresh approach, a decline in both Backspacer and Lightning Bolt, and then Gigaton as the triumph of this approach, so a return to the quality they provided pre-Backspacer, and really even before that. Gigaton is to me the album they were reaching for after Riot Act. To be determined how Dark Matter fits into this narrative or possibly creates a new turn.
yeah, i agree with this. I even think Gigaton is the album they could have done after Vitalogy or Yield too. Also, the only album i dont care much is LB.
Maybe it's better to look at the PRAMG as the Post-Epic/Sony era instead.
I mean, yes. Without the benefit of a record label back then, I think they were reaching for ways to stay both independent and relevant. Pearl Jam, the album, largely accomplished that in the media as their return to form, while Backspacer brought them that “crossover” appeal into adult rock with Just Breathe. I don’t know that there’ll be any true return after those final rattles in the real mainstream since their brand of rock music has come and gone, but one never knows.
Joined: Thu December 13, 2012 6:31 pm Posts: 40178
liebzz wrote:
Monkey_Driven wrote:
Maybe it's better to look at the PRAMG as the Post-Epic/Sony era instead.
I mean, yes. Without the benefit of a record label back then, I think they were reaching for ways to stay both independent and relevant. Pearl Jam, the album, largely accomplished that in the media as their return to form, while Backspacer brought them that “crossover” appeal into adult rock with Just Breathe. I don’t know that there’ll be any true return after those final rattles in the real mainstream since their brand of rock music has come and gone, but one never knows.
this makes a lot of sense. Post Epic/Sony the band now has to take responsibility for things they didn't have to before, and so are now decisions they have to own, as opposed to work that happened behind the scenes due to the label that they did not need to involve themselves in
if we are going to revist the scope and definitition of PRAMG, it should occur there
but in my view, it is settled-law
this thread is for ranking 10 songs according to current PRAMG doctrine
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i kind of can't get behind this concept anymore, because S/T now feels to me like "back when they were still great," and the real drop off started with BS.
yeah, agreed.
Ill rank from BS onwards and in no particular order:
Got Some The Fixer Speed Of Sound Johnny Guitar Sirens Yellow Moon My Father Son Who Ever Said Dance Quick Escape 7 O clock Take The Long Way River Cross
Gonna See my Friend Whoever Said DOTC Quick Escape Take the Long Way Seven o Clock My Fathers Son Lightning Bolt River Cross Speed of Sound
Joined: Thu December 13, 2012 6:31 pm Posts: 40178
true, but I imagine Avocado is the first album where suddenly they (at least the pearl jam org which is larger than the band) are responsible for a whole lot more decisions around the business side of making and releasing music than they were before
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