Post-Riot Act Moneygrab

[tragabigzanda]

which they had the financial wherewithal to do for every album
since Ten

But the wives and kids and aching joints came much later

[Fattie_Vedder]

Polybandarous!

Overall I think this is being over simplified in black and white terms when in reality there are multiple variables that contribute both to the band being more authentic and creative while also inhibiting them from meeting their previous heights. Ceding business decisions should free them up to focus on making music. Being in stable, happy places in their lives may quell the creative fire, but it may also enable them to communicate and collaborate together in healthier ways. Maybe they are being 100% authentic and are making the music they want to make today. And maybe not really because that music is only authentic to the vision and creative direction of one lead singer. They have become better musicians who have honed their craft over time, but maybe the type of music and musical influences they are best oriented towards, that once help define an entirely new genre, are no longer as relevant, and adapting that sound to modern influences doesn’t land the same (I’ve tried giving sips of the PJ kool aid to much you get colleagues at work, and they just don’t really get the early PJ sound).

[Strat]

Your answer depends on if you like the music or not.

Guys, the band is thirty plus years into their career. They weren't gonna defy expectations of any band that has lasted that long. It happens. We're cool.

[tragabigzanda]

Polybandarous!

Overall I think this is being over simplified in black and white terms when in reality there are multiple variables that contribute both to the band being more authentic and creative while also inhibiting them from meeting their previous heights. Ceding business decisions should free them up to focus on making music. Being in stable, happy places in their lives may quell the creative fire, but it may also enable them to communicate and collaborate together in healthier ways. Maybe they are being 100% authentic and are making the music they want to make today. And maybe not really because that music is only authentic to the vision and creative direction of one lead singer. They have become better musicians who have honed their craft over time, but maybe the type of music and musical influences they are best oriented towards, that once help define an entirely new genre, are no longer as relevant, and adapting that sound to modern influences doesn’t land the same (I’ve tried giving sips of the PJ kool aid to much you get colleagues at work, and they just don’t really get the early PJ sound).

I'm skeptical they're better musicians now. I don't equate proficiency with emotional resonance. You kind of get at that idea above, but not explicitly... I'll take the sloppy drum transitions of Brain of J over whatever's happening in Running any day of the week.

[Ms Harmless]

that's the thing; I'll take tight musicianship over sloppiness any day of the week, even if it's deliberate, stylistic sloppiness; I don't think the song-writing is as creative as it was during Yield, but if I did, I would probably prefer the current music overall

[oneway23]

I don't buy the struggle = more valid art theory. They aren't exactly crammed together in a room anymore with cases of beer, taking bong rips and jamming....It's not as though they struggled for years schleping it in a van and sleeping on floors when they were young, either (at least not as Pearl Jam).

There are a lot of years and deep feelings many of us have invested, and, I'm sure each one of us has some notion of an ideal of how we'd prefer they carry themselves, how they'd write songs, or play, how often they'd release records, or what causes they'd espouse and how ethically they'd approach them, who we'd prefer they did (and didn't) do business with....on and on...

They're not going to reach the idealistic heights of every fan's mental conception of them....It's up to each of us how we balance these things against our own values.

[tragabigzanda]

I don't buy the struggle = more valid art theory.

I wasn't suggesting validity, only quality. And I don't think they have to be poor to struggle, but (in my mind) they'd need to retain some strong connection to the memory of what that felt like. I feel this is where some of them (leader Ed) has lost his way.

[oneway23]

I don't buy the struggle = more valid art theory.

I wasn't suggesting validity, only quality. And I don't think they have to be poor to struggle, but (in my mind) they'd need to retain some strong connection to the memory of what that felt like. I feel this is where some of them (leader Ed) has lost his way.

Fair enough, babypaw. Apologies if I mischaracterized your intention.

I hear what you're saying, and, look, I don't know the guy, but, I sincerely doubt Ed has trouble tapping into his memories and feelings of what it was like growing up in a home that fostered so many kids from various backgrounds and situations, or what it was like pulling a graveyard shift at a gas station and coming home reeking of gasoline.

In my mind, seeing them pull some disingenuous, self-aggrandizing Dave Grohl shit, like that "van tour" the Foos did a few years ago, would almost feel even worse, in a lot of ways, than the idea of Pearl Jam "hopping the line", so to speak, in order to pump out a bunch of vinyl variants.

Just to be clear, I'm not minimizing the problems surrounding the production of vinyl and fully understand why people are taking issue with it. I don't love it, either, but, the reality is that there are a lot of artists out there who are pulling that lever right now, given they have the means to do so, which, Pearl Jam obviously do have, and have had, for a very long time now.

Last edited by oneway23 on Wed March 27, 2024 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Val]

James Blake launches new music platform, Vault, to address streaming inequity for artists

[tragabigzanda]

James Blake launches new music platform, Vault, to address streaming inequity for artists

the woodsy whisper puss?

[stip]

which they had the financial wherewithal to do for every album
since Ten

But the wives and kids and aching joints came much later

business process is no solution to the problem of aging

I think you are right in that some point post Riot Act their songwriting and approach towards their music changed in response to aging and having families. pearl jam became, quite explicitly, a middle aged band. I think thats an important frame for processing and making sense of their music. but its this, much more than either being too hands on or too hands off in the business operations of Pearl Jam Inc, that has impacted both the sound of their music and how prolific they are or are not.

[tragabigzanda]

which they had the financial wherewithal to do for every album
since Ten

But the wives and kids and aching joints came much later

business process is no solution to the problem of aging

I think you are right in that some point post Riot Act their songwriting and approach towards their music changed in response to aging and having families. pearl jam became, quite explicitly, a middle aged band. I think thats an important frame for processing and making sense of their music. but its this, much more than either being too hands on or too hands off in the business operations of Pearl Jam Inc, that has impacted both the sound of their music and how prolific they are or are not.

I disagree insofar as I think a bit part of the problem is Ed's lyrics -- those that are oriented towards equity, as we discussed a couple days ago -- take a huge hit.

[stip]

I don't buy the struggle = more valid art theory.

I wasn't suggesting validity, only quality. And I don't think they have to be poor to struggle, but (in my mind) they'd need to retain some strong connection to the memory of what that felt like. I feel this is where some of them (leader Ed) has lost his way.

this is it right here. Pearl Jam has evolved. Or changed is maybe better if evolution implies progress. they are a different band doing something different than what they did when they were younger. this is not the first time. there is a major evolutionary leap forward/change with No Code as well.

I struggled with that run of albums because I was so much more interested and invested in who pearl jam was and who I wanted them to be rather than process them on the baiss of who they are. Others made that transition easily. And the quality of the music/the listeners experience of it still matters. It is easier for me to appreciate those middle records now for what they are and what PJ was trying to do rather than forc it into a pre-existing frame I had and wanted. But I still dont like the body of songs as much


In Running and songs like it, a complaint people levelis that Ed or the band (usually Ed) are trying to sound young. I dont think thats right. running is not an older man aping being young. It is the sound of an older man excited for the music he is hearing and expressing it in a way that feels inauthentic if you decide that this type of music is soley the posession of youth. What if all that’s sacred doesn’t just come from youth, and the old can do more than just remember?

[stip]

which they had the financial wherewithal to do for every album
since Ten

But the wives and kids and aching joints came much later

business process is no solution to the problem of aging

I think you are right in that some point post Riot Act their songwriting and approach towards their music changed in response to aging and having families. pearl jam became, quite explicitly, a middle aged band. I think thats an important frame for processing and making sense of their music. but its this, much more than either being too hands on or too hands off in the business operations of Pearl Jam Inc, that has impacted both the sound of their music and how prolific they are or are not.

I disagree insofar as I think a bit part of the problem is Ed's lyrics -- those that are oriented towards equity, as we discussed a couple days ago -- take a huge hit.

we could revisit that. A lot of the songs you highlighted i think are lyrically some of his best, but I also dont think Eddie writes about equity too much, unless we broaden that definition to the point it stops having much use. Eddie writes (in those songs) primarily about solidarity (and responsibility).

[Ms Harmless]

the notion that your music taste and how hard you want to play should change just because you're 5, 10, 20, 30 years older than last time you did it, when contingents of your fans thought it sounded good, is ridiculous to me

I don't like AC/DC but not because they're old; I thought they sucked thirty years ago too

[tragabigzanda]

which they had the financial wherewithal to do for every album
since Ten

But the wives and kids and aching joints came much later

business process is no solution to the problem of aging

I think you are right in that some point post Riot Act their songwriting and approach towards their music changed in response to aging and having families. pearl jam became, quite explicitly, a middle aged band. I think thats an important frame for processing and making sense of their music. but its this, much more than either being too hands on or too hands off in the business operations of Pearl Jam Inc, that has impacted both the sound of their music and how prolific they are or are not.

I disagree insofar as I think a bit part of the problem is Ed's lyrics -- those that are oriented towards equity, as we discussed a couple days ago -- take a huge hit.

we could revisit that. A lot of the songs you highlighted i think are lyrically some of his best, but I also dont think Eddie writes about equity too much, unless we broaden that definition to the point it stops having much use. Eddie writes (in those songs) primarily about solidarity (and responsibility).

In my view, he's currently abdicating both to a significant degree.

[oneway23]

the notion that your music taste and how hard you want to play should change just because you're 5, 10, 20, 30 years older than last time you did it, when contingents of your fans thought it sounded good, is ridiculous to me

I don't like AC/DC but not because they're old; I thought they sucked thirty years ago too

I definitely believe that the age thing can be a bit of a straw man which can oftentimes be used to whip a band, especially when the fanbase maybe objects to certain creative directions a band has taken.

I don't suspect we have a lot of Rush fans on this board, but, for their last studio album, they made what many fans considered to be one of the heaviest, hardest rocking albums of their career.

Having said that, it's also equally valid for a band's collective tastes to change as they age.

[Ms Harmless]

the notion that your music taste and how hard you want to play should change just because you're 5, 10, 20, 30 years older than last time you did it, when contingents of your fans thought it sounded good, is ridiculous to me

I don't like AC/DC but not because they're old; I thought they sucked thirty years ago too

I definitely believe that the age thing can be a bit of a straw man which can oftentimes be used to whip a band, especially when the fanbase maybe objects to certain creative directions a band has taken.

I don't suspect we have a lot of Rush fans on this board, but, for their last studio album, they made what many fans considered to be one of the heaviest, hardest rocking albums of their career.

Having said that, it's also equally valid for a band's collective tastes to change as they age.

oh absolutely, and I think both has happened to Pearl Jam; they've decided they don't, often, want to quieten down (fair enough) and they've also more unashamedly embraced their less trendy classic rock / pop influences without the trendy bells and whistles that came with their association to the "grunge" movement (also fair enough)

[stip]

which they had the financial wherewithal to do for every album
since Ten

But the wives and kids and aching joints came much later

business process is no solution to the problem of aging

I think you are right in that some point post Riot Act their songwriting and approach towards their music changed in response to aging and having families. pearl jam became, quite explicitly, a middle aged band. I think thats an important frame for processing and making sense of their music. but its this, much more than either being too hands on or too hands off in the business operations of Pearl Jam Inc, that has impacted both the sound of their music and how prolific they are or are not.

I disagree insofar as I think a bit part of the problem is Ed's lyrics -- those that are oriented towards equity, as we discussed a couple days ago -- take a huge hit.

we could revisit that. A lot of the songs you highlighted i think are lyrically some of his best, but I also dont think Eddie writes about equity too much, unless we broaden that definition to the point it stops having much use. Eddie writes (in those songs) primarily about solidarity (and responsibility).

In my view, he's currently abdicating both to a significant degree.

Clearly

[Strat]

Basically, trag does not agree words choice of producer or investment portfolio