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 Post subject: Re: Post-Riot Act Moneygrab
PostPosted: Tue November 05, 2013 3:14 pm 
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But I bet I could name at least 20 OLP songs I like more than a bunch of songs on Binaural.

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 Post subject: Re: Post-Riot Act Moneygrab
PostPosted: Tue November 05, 2013 3:15 pm 
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theplatypus wrote:
Strat wrote:
theplatypus wrote:
stip wrote:
and not that enjoyable to listen to

it's definitely no OUR LADY PEACE, stip



STIP is pretty fly for a white guy!

You've got your shitty 90s bands mixed up.


yeah, The Offspring are horrendous

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 Post subject: Re: Post-Riot Act Moneygrab
PostPosted: Tue November 05, 2013 3:16 pm 
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theplatypus wrote:
Strat wrote:
theplatypus wrote:
stip wrote:
and not that enjoyable to listen to

it's definitely no OUR LADY PEACE, stip



STIP is pretty fly for a white guy!

You've got your shitty 90s bands mixed up.



I was mocking you.


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 Post subject: Re: Post-Riot Act Moneygrab
PostPosted: Tue November 05, 2013 3:16 pm 
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I've WAITED, oh HAIIIII, OH HAII, WAITED!

I loved OLP.


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 Post subject: Re: Post-Riot Act Moneygrab
PostPosted: Tue November 05, 2013 3:17 pm 
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Also, im pretty certain my high school band played pretty fly for a white guy at a holiday dance


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 Post subject: Re: Post-Riot Act Moneygrab
PostPosted: Tue November 05, 2013 3:18 pm 
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stip wrote:
But I bet I could name at least 20 OLP songs I like more than a bunch of songs on Binaural.


I like pretty fly for a white guy more than the fixer AND sirens. :finger:


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 Post subject: Re: Post-Riot Act Moneygrab
PostPosted: Tue November 05, 2013 3:24 pm 
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stupidmop wrote:
I bet if we start a 'binaural saved my life and makes me think of my dead dog omg its so misundertood what a wonderful time in pearl jam history' campaign, in a couple of years they'll be singing a different tune.

The ' weirdest' song on there is sleight of hand, which seems to be popping up more than usual if anything.


If PJ carry that instinct forward, as well as the instinct to write "Pendulum" et al, we might see better future days after all.

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 Post subject: Re: Post-Riot Act Moneygrab
PostPosted: Tue November 05, 2013 3:25 pm 
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stupidmop wrote:
Can someone sit them down and explain to them that really none of vitalogy - binaural is that weird or out there? Because really its not.

Ed is annoying, at some point he has to act on that ' maybe its time to get back to that weirder stuff' thing hes been saying for the past 5 years. .


Yup. I ignore those quotes now.

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 Post subject: Re: Post-Riot Act Moneygrab
PostPosted: Tue November 05, 2013 3:26 pm 
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stupidmop wrote:
stip wrote:
But I bet I could name at least 20 OLP songs I like more than a bunch of songs on Binaural.


I like pretty fly for a white guy more than the fixer AND sirens. :finger:


:shake:

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Post-Riot Act Moneygrab
PostPosted: Tue November 05, 2013 3:30 pm 
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McParadigm wrote:
EJ wrote:
Remember, it's Ed who's been quoted numerous times that the "how will it play live" component is a major influence on the songwriting, and I'd imagine album song selection. Thats a really annoying perspective to me.

Thankfully, Jeff has taken more of the creative mantle recently. Hope he keeps that influence going forward - as most of the guys were really wowed by how My Father's Son turned out.


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Great post.

To be perfectly honest, I really like "MFS", but I mostly like it because, like "Pendulum", it reflects some of the best things about Pearl Jam in my opinion. If either of these songs had been written 16 years back, they would likely be considered the weaker songs on an album. So it just seems really weird that PJ would be bowled over, surprised, by how a song like MFS turned out. It's like they suddenly remembered that they were capable of making relatively interesting, complex music. But they did know this, right? They haven't had collective amnesia for the best several years? Rather than being "surprised" about these good songs, why not just write more of them, like they used to time and time again?

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 Post subject: Re: Post-Riot Act Moneygrab
PostPosted: Tue November 05, 2013 3:42 pm 
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McParadigm wrote:
hlniv wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
There is a very real change in commercial intention, and the resulting change in aesthetic, following riot act…but I think it's mostly a result of how thoroughly neutered they felt in their attempts to make a difference with all the 2004 politicizing stuff. And given how down in the dumps they looked for most of the 2000 US and subsequent tours, maybe they eventually came to respond to Roskilde by starting to make music that was less about fulfilling themselves artistically and more about what they thought would make fans happy.


But what about us fans that are happy when they fulfill themselves artistically?


If they've done anything in the last 10 years, it's show that they have a keen sense of what makes their sound appealing to casual listeners and a very poor understanding of their own fanbase.

Isn't their fanbase impossible to understand though? Even if you consider the sarcastic take on RM - we're a bunch of people who hate PJ but each of us for a different reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Post-Riot Act Moneygrab
PostPosted: Tue November 05, 2013 3:52 pm 
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I would say that *most* of the fan base represented by the 10C would lap up anything they put out, within reason. They'll always revert to the default, "Thanks for all you do, Ten Club!"

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 Post subject: Re: Post-Riot Act Moneygrab
PostPosted: Tue November 05, 2013 3:52 pm 
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hlniv wrote:
The band reached a pinnacle in their belief that their own artistic expression was critically important following the release of Riot Act and subsequent tour. The bulk of 2004 and 2005 was their internal realization that they really weren't going to make a difference, and decided to solely focus on making money. Hence the self-titled re-branding with an image of an avocado.

Discuss



I understand and agree with the money grab aspect. Not sold on the Riot Act stuff though. Riot Act was their worst album. They realized that. Binaural was pretty bad too. S/T wasn't very good either. There really is a bit of a common theme there, so let me explain...

The key to all of the above was the political spin on each record and during each tour. The worse it got (see Riot Act) the worse the album was. S/T was full of it, but less in your face. Binaural only dealt with it in certain areas and did have some singles that were not war-related at all, but it began with Binaural because that's when Ed was actively pushing for Nader.

I know Ed's always been political, but to me - Ed is OCD and was set on writing political type songs once he was supporting Nader's election bid and talking politics at shows. Remember I am a Patriot and all that? He was brainwashed into thinking all the problems in the world could be cured by getting a guy he supports into the White House. Then, 2000 election occurred and some say Nader lost the election for Gore. I remember idiots like Moby claiming Ed lost the election for Gore because he was the reason for the Nader votes. I think this affected Ed too. He's a sensitive soul and does care how he's perceived. So, now he was on a crusade to prove he (too) hated Bush. Hence, why you get albums like Riot Act and Pearl Jam and war-related speeches at every show. In fact, I think this is also why you have lines like "I remember when you sang that song about today, now it's tomorrow and everything has changed" (focusing on Bush's thoughts on Nation Building pre and post 9/11). The truth is Ed's behavior (on album and during concerts) alienated some fans, not necessarily because they liked Bush (although that could have been true for some), but because rock concerts/albums turned into political advertisements (something a lot of us are tired of).

Then, of course, post-Bush you have the vote for change stuff and Ed's support for Obama. And once Obama wins.. the realization that Ed can't write anything bad about that guy (or really politics - defined as policy type songs - at all now) is what you see with Backspacer and Lightning Bolt. Ironically, a lot of non-PJ fans are brought back in from this - and diehards, who loved the political ads, say they are selling out with these new songs. So, to me, the pinnacle was really reached at Yield. It was slowly melting into Ed's political OCD post Yield.

As for selling out, I'd say they began the process when they left Sony. They realized it was their time to make buck. And they've been doing it ever since. Target, Ten Club, etc.


Last edited by IlluminEddie on Tue November 05, 2013 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Post-Riot Act Moneygrab
PostPosted: Tue November 05, 2013 3:54 pm 
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I have a theory: Its not so much about money or artistry. Its about being big enough and relevent enough that Ed can get his message out, and maybe even use the money to support his causes. I really think that's more important to him than music at this point.

Before ST, it was just about screaming as loud and as long as he possibly could, but decided it wasn't working, especially with dwindling record sales. I think he decided to try a different tactic afterwords. He is still just as political, just more savvy about it. Not a fan.

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 Post subject: Re: Post-Riot Act Moneygrab
PostPosted: Tue November 05, 2013 3:57 pm 
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There is nothing wrong with Binaural and Riot Act at all. They both represented Pearl Jam following Pearl Jam's creative instincts. A lot of the fanbase didn't like them; neither, apparently, does Pearl Jam. That's the problem. They have bad taste. Most of the fanbase has bad taste. It's that simple; they may as well do the money-grab, because not enough people enjoy their very best material.

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Last edited by harmless on Tue November 05, 2013 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Post-Riot Act Moneygrab
PostPosted: Tue November 05, 2013 3:58 pm 
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I think that's probably right, and I would suspect that probably goes beyond Ed.

Pearl Jam really has nothing left to prove. They've made millions of dollars, they've released classic albums, they are considered one of the best live bands around even 20+ years into their career. They've presumably accomplished every goal they ever set for themselves.

I know we all want to continue to relive whatever era in their history we are most attracted to, but I can very easily see, from their perspective, that they would rather be able to do some good for the things they care about. And there is a lot you can say about Bono, but he does a lot of good and he is able to do it BECAUSE he is Bono and because u2 has the reach it does. I'm not sure they're aiming that high, and i don't think they could get there (these guys are terrible self-promoters), but I do think they have mid-tier aspirations to that end

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 Post subject: Re: Post-Riot Act Moneygrab
PostPosted: Tue November 05, 2013 4:02 pm 
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harmless wrote:
There is nothing wrong with Binaural and Riot Act at all. They both represented Pearl Jam following Pearl Jam's creative instincts. A lot of the fanbase didn't like them; neither, apparently, does Pearl Jam. That's the problem. They have no taste. Most of the fanbase has bad taste. It's that simple; they may as well do the money-grab, because not enough people enjoy their very best material.



ugh. There's nothing wrong with Binaural and Riot Act. They're good albums. but they're good albums from a band that can and often does release great albums. these are flat, dull, lifeless, and uninspired by comparison, with some interesting and warm production choices masking the lack of a soul at the core of too many of those songs. Imo.

There is no reason to ever really doubt that pearl jam has not followed their creative instincts, although I don't really even know what the fuck that means. The fact that you like those records more is not because they are more creative. It explores an aspect of the bands sound you like more. One I would emphatically argue represents the low point of their creative drive and produced the least moving, least interesting, least inspired music of their career.

So either one of us is just totally wrong, or we should abandon this framework.

regardless, the fact that we know so little about their studio/artistic process (it is never really filmed or effectively talked about) means that most of this talk about creativity is just romance and myth making. Talking about the types of songs they write, the production choices made, etc. That's tangible.

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 Post subject: Re: Post-Riot Act Moneygrab
PostPosted: Tue November 05, 2013 4:03 pm 
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harmless wrote:
There is nothing wrong with Binaural and Riot Act at all. They both represented Pearl Jam following Pearl Jam's creative instincts. A lot of the fanbase didn't like them; neither, apparently, does Pearl Jam. That's the problem. They have bad taste. Most of the fanbase has bad taste. It's that simple; they may as well do the money-grab, because not enough people enjoy their very best material.



Not saying there's anything "wrong" with Binaural, Riot Act and S/T. I'm saying they were the band's worst albums. If being creative is writing songs about politics and obsessing over politcal events at shows, then yeh - they were ultra "creative" during those days.

Truth is - I'd think creativity would mean writing songs about a multitude of things.... including a few songs that aren't 100% depressing.


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 Post subject: Re: Post-Riot Act Moneygrab
PostPosted: Tue November 05, 2013 4:05 pm 
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Goddamnit I would decide to post at the same time fucking IlluminEddie comes in with his bullshit.

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 Post subject: Re: Post-Riot Act Moneygrab
PostPosted: Tue November 05, 2013 4:08 pm 
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Strat wrote:
theplatypus wrote:
Strat wrote:
theplatypus wrote:
stip wrote:
and not that enjoyable to listen to

it's definitely no OUR LADY PEACE, stip



STIP is pretty fly for a white guy!

You've got your shitty 90s bands mixed up.



I was mocking you.

Great job.

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