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 Post subject: Re: Lets Actually Listen to the Album: Vitalogy
PostPosted: Fri December 27, 2013 6:42 pm 
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spike wrote:
what's the consensus on betterman's conceptual purpose within this album? is it just eddie tracing his adult problems back to a troubled youth?


BoB wanted a hit. easy answer

This would have been a more connected concept album -

Last Exit
Not For You
Tremor Christ
Nothingman
Whipping
Pry, to
Corduroy
Bugs
Satan's Bed
Aye Davanita
Immortality


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 Post subject: Re: Lets Actually Listen to the Album: Vitalogy
PostPosted: Fri December 27, 2013 8:19 pm 
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McParadigm wrote:
Also, if you gut stupidmop then Vitalogy sounds like an album about collapse where the closest the band came to actual collapse was an accordian joke and some cool guitar sounds tagged on to the end of Not for You. It kind of makes the whole record feel like it's all posture, or maybe just playing pretend.


I'm not sure I agree that the inclusion of a rather unremarkable art school sound collage with some voice-overs about sex and spankings makes the record feel less like posturing.

End with "Immortality." Fuck the concept.


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 Post subject: Re: Lets Actually Listen to the Album: Vitalogy
PostPosted: Fri December 27, 2013 8:25 pm 
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Kevin Davis wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
Also, if you gut stupidmop then Vitalogy sounds like an album about collapse where the closest the band came to actual collapse was an accordian joke and some cool guitar sounds tagged on to the end of Not for You. It kind of makes the whole record feel like it's all posture, or maybe just playing pretend.


I'm not sure I agree that the inclusion of a rather unremarkable art school sound collage with some voice-overs about sex and spankings makes the record feel less like posturing.

End with "Immortality." Fuck the concept.

I wouldn't complain if they ended every album with Immortality. I'd be fine with that. Yep.

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 Post subject: Re: Lets Actually Listen to the Album: Vitalogy
PostPosted: Fri December 27, 2013 8:28 pm 
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I have no problem with people saying "I never listen to Stupid Mop," but that's an entirely different sentiment than "The album ends with Immortality." But then again, it's no sillier than "retracking" albums.

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 Post subject: Re: Lets Actually Listen to the Album: Vitalogy
PostPosted: Fri December 27, 2013 8:41 pm 
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Lament wrote:
I have no problem with people saying "I never listen to Stupid Mop," but that's an entirely different sentiment than "The album ends with Immortality." But then again, it's no sillier than "retracking" albums.


:thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Lets Actually Listen to the Album: Vitalogy
PostPosted: Fri December 27, 2013 8:43 pm 
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Lament wrote:
I have no problem with people saying "I never listen to Stupid Mop," but that's an entirely different sentiment than "The album ends with Immortality." But then again, it's no sillier than "retracking" albums.

rank these three things you just mentioned.

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 Post subject: Re: Lets Actually Listen to the Album: Vitalogy
PostPosted: Fri December 27, 2013 8:43 pm 
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Kevin Davis wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
Also, if you gut stupidmop then Vitalogy sounds like an album about collapse where the closest the band came to actual collapse was an accordian joke and some cool guitar sounds tagged on to the end of Not for You. It kind of makes the whole record feel like it's all posture, or maybe just playing pretend.


I'm not sure I agree that the inclusion of a rather unremarkable art school sound collage with some voice-overs about sex and spankings makes the record feel less like posturing.

End with "Immortality." Fuck the concept.


I'm quoting this because I can't be bothered to go back a page. McP, the other little hints of 'collapse' on the album include the intro to Last Exit, and the discordant, ill-fitting intro to Betterman which sounds like an addition tagged on to make it less poppy. (Which makes it an interesting antithesis to the piano on Future Days.)

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 Post subject: Re: Lets Actually Listen to the Album: Vitalogy
PostPosted: Fri December 27, 2013 9:09 pm 
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Yeah, I think Stupid Mop is terrible and never listen to it, but I think it's unarguably the final song of the record.

If you're assessing the relative worth record as a whole, I think it's absurd to pretend like the almost eight-minute final track doesn't exist - "nope, album ends with Immortality, best album ever!"


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 Post subject: Re: Lets Actually Listen to the Album: Vitalogy
PostPosted: Fri December 27, 2013 9:20 pm 
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Birds in Hell wrote:
Yeah, I think Stupid Mop is terrible and never listen to it, but I think it's unarguably the final song of the record.

If you're assessing the relative worth record as a whole, I think it's absurd to pretend like the almost eight-minute final track doesn't exist - "nope, album ends with Immortality, best album ever!"

i love stupid mop

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 Post subject: Re: Lets Actually Listen to the Album: Vitalogy
PostPosted: Fri December 27, 2013 9:21 pm 
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And so it begins

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 Post subject: Re: Lets Actually Listen to the Album: Vitalogy
PostPosted: Fri December 27, 2013 9:21 pm 
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Alex wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:
Yeah, I think Stupid Mop is terrible and never listen to it, but I think it's unarguably the final song of the record.

If you're assessing the relative worth record as a whole, I think it's absurd to pretend like the almost eight-minute final track doesn't exist - "nope, album ends with Immortality, best album ever!"

i love stupid mop

Well, it's probably better than that Sleigh Bells song.


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 Post subject: Re: Lets Actually Listen to the Album: Vitalogy
PostPosted: Fri December 27, 2013 9:33 pm 
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Birds in Hell wrote:
Alex wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:
Yeah, I think Stupid Mop is terrible and never listen to it, but I think it's unarguably the final song of the record.

If you're assessing the relative worth record as a whole, I think it's absurd to pretend like the almost eight-minute final track doesn't exist - "nope, album ends with Immortality, best album ever!"

i love stupid mop

Well, it's probably better than that Sleigh Bells song.

i knew i should have played it safe with soundgarden rarities and PJ side project tracks to appease your unsophisticated, bogan tastes

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 Post subject: Re: Lets Actually Listen to the Album: Vitalogy
PostPosted: Fri December 27, 2013 9:34 pm 
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Stupid Mop is definitely not as good as LTRP!

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 Post subject: Re: Lets Actually Listen to the Album: Vitalogy
PostPosted: Fri December 27, 2013 9:35 pm 
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harmless wrote:
Stupid Mop is definitely not as good as LTRP!

It's more interesting. I don't particularly care for either track though.


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 Post subject: Re: Lets Actually Listen to the Album: Vitalogy
PostPosted: Fri December 27, 2013 9:40 pm 
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True story, I like stupid mop better than "U". or "You".

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 Post subject: Re: Lets Actually Listen to the Album: Vitalogy
PostPosted: Fri December 27, 2013 9:41 pm 
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stip wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
Though we generally cringe at "Grunge", with Vitalogy, In Utero, Superunknown and AiC's general sound by 1994, I think you could argue that Grunge could be considered its own subgenre by that time.

Nirvana got sludgier, PJ got punkier and Soundgarden and Alice moved away from the metal. Originally coming from different backgrounds, they all seemed to move toward each other to some degree by 1994. I wonder how conscious it was.


I don't know how conscious it was, but there certainly seemed to be a recognizable sound at thus point. The screaming trees certainly move in the same direction, and second gen bands like bush and sponge are definitely apeing a discernible style

It was all downhill for it after that.

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 Post subject: Re: Lets Actually Listen to the Album: Vitalogy
PostPosted: Fri December 27, 2013 9:41 pm 
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Alex wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:
Alex wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:
Yeah, I think Stupid Mop is terrible and never listen to it, but I think it's unarguably the final song of the record.

If you're assessing the relative worth record as a whole, I think it's absurd to pretend like the almost eight-minute final track doesn't exist - "nope, album ends with Immortality, best album ever!"

i love stupid mop

Well, it's probably better than that Sleigh Bells song.

i knew i should have played it safe with soundgarden rarities and PJ side project tracks to appease your unsophisticated, bogan tastes

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Lets Actually Listen to the Album: Vitalogy
PostPosted: Fri December 27, 2013 9:41 pm 
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harmless wrote:
and the discordant, ill-fitting intro to Betterman which sounds like an addition tagged on to make it less poppy. (Which makes it an interesting antithesis to the piano on Future Days.)

+1
FD is like a bizarro Betterman. Bumbling and shallow, but you can't help but feel sympathy.

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 Post subject: Re: Lets Actually Listen to the Album: Vitalogy
PostPosted: Fri December 27, 2013 9:51 pm 
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Birds in Hell wrote:
Alex wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:
Alex wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:
Yeah, I think Stupid Mop is terrible and never listen to it, but I think it's unarguably the final song of the record.

If you're assessing the relative worth record as a whole, I think it's absurd to pretend like the almost eight-minute final track doesn't exist - "nope, album ends with Immortality, best album ever!"

i love stupid mop

Well, it's probably better than that Sleigh Bells song.

i knew i should have played it safe with soundgarden rarities and PJ side project tracks to appease your unsophisticated, bogan tastes

Image

if hadn't taken the plunge into PJ chat to harass you, i would still be living a life unaware of the existence of PJ fan portraits

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 Post subject: Re: Lets Actually Listen to the Album: Vitalogy
PostPosted: Fri December 27, 2013 9:54 pm 
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Birds in Hell wrote:
Yeah, I think Stupid Mop is terrible and never listen to it, but I think it's unarguably the final song of the record.

If you're assessing the relative worth record as a whole, I think it's absurd to pretend like the almost eight-minute final track doesn't exist - "nope, album ends with Immortality, best album ever!"


I don't think anyone is legitimately "pretending" it doesn't exist--I think any comments to that effect are essentially just commentary on how the record holds up without it, which is fair and a pretty common way for people to process records. To my mind it's considerably less absurd than the idea that a track you never listen to "needs to be there" because the "flow" or the "concept" doesn't work when it's gone. None of that stuff matters if you disrupt said flow by never playing the track.

I'm not a big "retracking" guy but if you are, as you say, assessing the relative worth of a record as a whole, saying "this track sucks, it shouldn't have been included," essentially a criticism of the record's production value, is completely reasonable. The band puts thought into it on their end, so it's open season when it comes to us on ours.


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