Red Mosquito • View topic - Lets Actually Listen to the Album: Vitalogy

Kevin Davis · **Joined:** Tue January 01, 2013 6:06 pm **Posts:** 8569

Alex wrote:

if hadn't taken the plunge into PJ chat to harass you, i would still be living a life unaware of the existence of PJ fan portraits

Have you seen the Neil and Eddie V. "Dream Bros" one? Seek it out if not.

Alex · **Joined:** Fri August 16, 2013 6:36 pm **Posts:** 5699

Kevin Davis wrote:

Alex wrote:

if hadn't taken the plunge into PJ chat to harass you, i would still be living a life unaware of the existence of PJ fan portraits

Have you seen the Neil and Eddie V. "Dream Bros" one? Seek it out if not.

is there a dark, dingy corner of the internet where this can be found?

Kevin Davis · **Joined:** Tue January 01, 2013 6:06 pm **Posts:** 8569

Thankfully it's my internet homepage so I have the link handy.

harmless · **Joined:** Tue January 01, 2013 2:41 pm **Posts:** 17337

Alex · **Joined:** Fri August 16, 2013 6:36 pm **Posts:** 5699

jesus god

BurtReynolds · **Posted:** Fri December 27, 2013 10:07 pm

it still haunts me.

stip · **Joined:** Thu December 13, 2012 6:31 pm **Posts:** 39951

digster wrote:

stip wrote:

digster wrote:

stip wrote:

digster wrote:

I feel like Vitalogy may end in the bleakest spot of any of their records. I wouldn't deny there's a fighting spirit at the beginning, but by the time Stupid Mop sputters out, it seems like there's nothing left of it. It was kind of shocking when I listened to the album straight through most recently; in isolation the songs sound more hopeful then tracing it from start to end.

I'm not sure I agree. Betterman and satan's because have some fight in them, and immortality doesn't end with the desolate sound it starts with. I may be unfairly excluding stupid mop. On the other hand, maybe it is significant that it is the only song not in eddies voice

I think it's definitely a progression, although Better Man's up-tempo sound always struck me as mocking as opposed to a call to 'keep fighting' as it were (after all, the songs ends with the character repeating over and over, "can't find a better man," absolutely a sign that she's given up). However, by the time you get past to Immortality and Stupid Mop, things are pretty relentlessly bleak. I think that's why Ave Davanita, and it's placement, is no accident. It separates those last two songs into the final 'chapter' of the record.

I have no problem with that bleakness, by the way. They've ended some of their other records in similar spots and they've been great endings as well.

That's reasonable, bit I still hear Betterman as refusing to give up on the hope of something better even with no out in sight. And while immortality is a dark song it ends on that moment of indecision, and while stupid mop is hopelessly bleak with strong intimations of suicide it is still, I think, significant, that the song is not in eddies voice. Sort of a 'there but for the grace of god go I/road not taken outcome. A warning, not a prophecy. Where you end up if you stop pushing the rock.

I think Betterman may have had a similar thing as happened to Alive; it's a dark song on record, but live the anthemic quality of it shifted the perception of the song. Lyrically, it's hard for me to hear the ending of that song as anything other than a total defeat and surrender; "she feeds him, that's why she'll be back again...can't find a better man."

And I always heard Immortality as being pretty final when it's last lyrics hit. The truant comes up on a fork in the road in the last verse, but it ends with "truants move on, cannot stay long, some die just to live." The jam at the end feels like the decision's been made, and the character is just floating into the ether. To me, it's the darkest ending to a PJ record besides maybe All or None. And then Stupid Mop takes you out of the ether and puts you in hell. The length of the song, and the fact that there's little to grab onto, makes it feel evocative of eternity.

Or something like that.

it's a song, though, so the music should be giving you some interpreitive hints regarding how to understand the lyrics, and so the born to runesque crescendo at the end of betterman certainly colors how I read the song.

and like I said, that's a pretty reasonable read on immortality--it's just not mine. the final statement of immortality is still posed ambiguously, embodies a defeatist attitude that runs counter (and in a way that is something of a sudden 180) to much of the rest of the record, and the moments that follow are not in the main character's voice.

MattA75 wrote:

stip wrote:

digster wrote:

stip wrote:

digster wrote:

I feel like Vitalogy may end in the bleakest spot of any of their records. I wouldn't deny there's a fighting spirit at the beginning, but by the time Stupid Mop sputters out, it seems like there's nothing left of it. It was kind of shocking when I listened to the album straight through most recently; in isolation the songs sound more hopeful then tracing it from start to end.

I'm not sure I agree. Betterman and satan's because have some fight in them, and immortality doesn't end with the desolate sound it starts with. I may be unfairly excluding stupid mop. On the other hand, maybe it is significant that it is the only song not in eddies voice

I think it's definitely a progression, although Better Man's up-tempo sound always struck me as mocking as opposed to a call to 'keep fighting' as it were (after all, the songs ends with the character repeating over and over, "can't find a better man," absolutely a sign that she's given up). However, by the time you get past to Immortality and Stupid Mop, things are pretty relentlessly bleak. I think that's why Ave Davanita, and it's placement, is no accident. It separates those last two songs into the final 'chapter' of the record.

I have no problem with that bleakness, by the way. They've ended some of their other records in similar spots and they've been great endings as well.

That's reasonable, bit I still hear Betterman as refusing to give up on the hope of something better even with no out in sight. And while immortality is a dark song it ends on that moment of indecision, and while stupid mop is hopelessly bleak with strong intimations of suicide it is still, I think, significant, that the song is not in eddies voice. Sort of a 'there but for the grace of god go I/road not taken outcome. A warning, not a prophecy. Where you end up if you stop pushing the rock.

would you feel the same way about Better Man if it were the organ/vocal version from the Vitalogy re-issue?

I'd probably feel differently about it

Alex · **Joined:** Fri August 16, 2013 6:36 pm **Posts:** 5699

it looks like something an imprisoned serial killer would draw in art therapy

stip · **Joined:** Thu December 13, 2012 6:31 pm **Posts:** 39951

I half expect Neil to suddenly distend his jaw and swallow eddie

Kevin Davis · **Joined:** Tue January 01, 2013 6:06 pm **Posts:** 8569

RM should have a contest where posters are all required to join a dating site, the only requirement being that everyone's profile picture has to be a terrible picture of him or herself holding up a piece of notebook paper with Pearl Jam lyrics written on it. First one to get a date gets first prize, and so forth.

stip · **Joined:** Thu December 13, 2012 6:31 pm **Posts:** 39951

do you think if you had included a picture of chud holding up a pearl jam lyric it might have gotten him that date with the mynabirds singer?

digster · **Joined:** Thu January 03, 2013 1:10 am **Posts:** 3880

stip wrote:

it's a song, though, so the music should be giving you some interpreitive hints regarding how to understand the lyrics, and so the born to runesque crescendo at the end of betterman certainly colors how I read the song.

and like I said, that's a pretty reasonable read on immortality--it's just not mine. the final statement of immortality is still posed ambiguously, embodies a defeatist attitude that runs counter (and in a way that is something of a sudden 180) to much of the rest of the record, and the moments that follow are not in the main character's voice.

Well, I'd agree that the music should give hints; it does. I think the pairing of such a dark sentiment with the poppy music heightens how sad and ironic the end of that song is. As for Immortality, yeah, we just disagree on that one. I see how someone could feel the ending music could take the edge off the final lyric.

Lament · **Joined:** Wed March 13, 2013 12:48 am **Posts:** 11792

Kevin Davis wrote:

RM should have a contest where posters are all required to join a dating site, the only requirement being that everyone's profile picture has to be a terrible picture of him or herself holding up a piece of notebook paper with Pearl Jam lyrics written on it. First one to get a date gets first prize, and so forth.

I'm gonna update my profile picture to one of me holding a sign that says "Love boat captain, take the reigns..." and report back. I just need to find a Captain's hat to wear in the photo.

harmless · **Joined:** Tue January 01, 2013 2:41 pm **Posts:** 17337

Steer us t'ward the eclair.

Lament · **Joined:** Wed March 13, 2013 12:48 am **Posts:** 11792

harmless wrote:

Steer us t'ward the eclair.

No fat chicks.

Kaius · **Joined:** Fri November 15, 2013 6:14 am **Posts:** 11136

Pleasantly plump or awkwardly skinny?

spike · **Joined:** Wed January 02, 2013 4:18 am **Posts:** 28195

Alex wrote:

it looks like something an imprisoned serial killer would draw in art therapy

harmless · **Joined:** Tue January 01, 2013 2:41 pm **Posts:** 17337

Kaius wrote:

Pleasantly plump

Lament · **Joined:** Wed March 13, 2013 12:48 am **Posts:** 11792

Kaius wrote:

awkwardly skinny

Lament · **Joined:** Wed March 13, 2013 12:48 am **Posts:** 11792

(We're talking about how we prefer our Pearl Jam albums, right?)

Lets Actually Listen to the Album: Vitalogy

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