I guess my experience from casual fans has been Ten untouchable, Vs. good but big step down, Vitalogy has good songs but is a bad album, No Code sucks, Yield best album since Vs., Binaural and Riot Act sucked, s/t return to form, Backspacer good, Lightning Bolt exists?, Gigaton exists?

I would assume anyone familiar with the post S/T work (arguably the post Riot Act work) is either in the industry or is a non-casual fan. So I don't think casual fans have many opinions about those records either way, and certainly prefer the first three to the No Code -> Riot Act run. I'm pretty much with Liebzz on this.

I will say that the initial singles of the last twenty years tend to chart/do well (a workable metric for casual interest), even if most of them have not lingered in the public consciousness (which is true of everything post vitalogy excepting maybe Yield). And those tend to not be the songs beloved by RM, but they are regularly among my favorites (I Am Mine, World Wide Suicide, The Fixer, Mind Your Manners) - and the second singles as well. Save You, Life Wasted (I think?), Just Breathe, Sirens, Superblood. I think that's the type of Pearl Jam song/sound that the 'casual' fan is looking for, and that tends to be the well I like to drink from.


If more people were familiar with the Backspacer - > Gigaton run of albums I suspect they'd rank them similar to how I do. None of that is an sort of objective statement about the quality of the songs. Over the years RM attracted members who were as or more attracted to the type of Pearl Jam song that pushes back against what the archetypal pearl jam song is (and usually you are a fan of something before you get interested in deconstructing it). That's just not me, and probably your typical 'casual' fan.

The casual fans I have met have often been introduced to newer Pearl Jam by me (like a girlfriend, or friends). Most people either remember the early 90s, or if younger, have just heard about them here and there.

Backspacer did ok when it was released, but I’ve not heard it mentioned in non-Pearl Jam circles since. Yet, Ten still pops up many places.

Gigaton didn’t seem to make a mark at all.

Now when people are gladly and willingly introduced to Pearl Jam’s discography, my experience is that they often appreciate the middle albums highly.

Well none of the albums post Vitalogy pop up anywhere after their release. They all fail to make a mark compared to something like Ten. Ten is the seminal album, Vs is the massive proof of concept, Vitalogy is the album for the serious music fan who wants to like Pearl Jam but thinks Ten is too commercial. And then the rest cease to matter after their initial splash.

I'm also speaking exclusively of the American experience of these records. I can't speak to how they did in Europe, South America, etc

I think the casual fan typically wants to see bands like Pearl Jam pull from the well that got them here, and it’s the more hardcore fan that wants them to push themselves to find new spaces and possibilities within that framework.

This is why I find albums like Ten, Vs., and Yield - then say Backspacer and Lightning Bolt - appeal to a casual fan (not only casual fans but I should say also bring in casual fans) because they set the table and eat off it.

Albums like Vitalogy, No Code, Binaural, And Riot Act tend to appeal to a more hardcore base only because they push those boundaries around and redefine what can be at the table.

None of that in any way is a qualitative analysis of these albums but more an observation on what draws who in and why.

I think really the only sure thing you could say about this type of things is that if you asked ten casual fans with a passing understanding of their music about Pearl Jam's finest record, you'd probably hear "Ten" almost every single time. As a record, it casts a massive shadow over the rest of the catalog, even those that immediately followed it; an album like Vs. sold more records in its first week than any other record at the time, but I don't get the impression it's remembered in the way other big 90s records like Achtung Baby, OK Computer, or even Ten are. I think everyone's going to remember songs like Daughter and Better Man, but it'll be harder to remember the records they came from.

Beyond that, it's hard not to fall into glomming our own idiosyncratic tastes onto what we believe a casual fan would think and like (and even how a casual fan would be defined). Coupled with the fact that there's no objective barometers here (after all, PJ post-Vitalogy hasn't really had huge commercial peaks and valleys), and it means most of what we have to go on is our own anecdotal experience, which only goes so far.

But as far as my own anecdotal experience, in terms of what albums I hear talked about besides Ten? Honestly, it's always the 90s records, and maybe this is solely due to the fact that more people on those records. I've had conversations with people familiar with No Code or Yield; as much as I may love Binuaral, I don't think I've ever had a conversation with anyone who knew anything about that record, and that goes the same for pretty much every record afterward.

I will say it feels like there's been some critical reappraisal of No Code and Yield in recent years, and part of me wonders if that is because we now have people writing about those records who are able to look at them beyond the context of what they immediately meant in PJ's catalog (i.e. a critic or fan who loved the first three albums and is being asked to review No Code in 1996 is likely to have a much different take than someone who has a bit more distance). By no means has there been enough of this to make me think much of it, but it does make me curious how a new re-release of No Code/Yield, akin to what they did with Vs./Vitalogy, would be received.

Yeah, Gigaton will go down as one of the best albums nobody heard

Gigaton, at least for the U.S., also just came at a uniquely strange moment in terms of when COVID crisis was starting; I feel like it arrived when it was really just starting to become really bad, but there was still a lot of uncertainty about how cataclysmic this was going to be. I think if it'd been released a few weeks on either side of where it was, it might have poked through a bit, but it just got (completely understandably) swallowed by everything else happening.

Agreed. Had it come out in June or July it would have been billed as a thematic response to COVID, I think

Binaural is the number one, forever and always. Yield, Vitalogy, and No Code hang out together after that, with Yield being comfortably in the second spot for a while now. Vs, Ten, and Riot Act used to be mostly interchangeable, but Riot Act has been slipping and both Avocado and Gigaton are in this area now, too. Backspacer and Lightning Bolt commingle at the bottom, unsurprisingly. I have a hard time really sorting out a solid ranking anymore, so the idea of tiers is kind of appealing.

In short, I guess it's kinda like this:
Binaural
Yield
Vitalogy/No Code
Gigaton/Vs/Pearl Jam/Ten/Riot Act
Backspacer/Lightning Bolt

I'm glad we got it when we did and it seemed, ahem, clairvoyant.

You guys talk about "the casual fan" as if you meet these people on the daily. I don't think I've ever met anyone would fit that sort of description. At least, no one who would have any ability to discuss PJs albums at any level.

On my experience the (very very few) people I meet in real life who have any sort of opinion on Pearl Jam are either fanatical or totally non plussed.

I would enjoy meeting a "casual PJ fan" one day and having a chat with them.

I probably have a distinct person in mind who represents the remainder of the casual PJ fan world in my fictional mind. Around 40 years old. Counts Ten and Temple of the Dog among her all time favorite albums. Liked Vs. enough. Dislikes Vitalogy. Despised No Code, and didn’t show up again until she was complimentary towards the self-titled and has heard glimpses of them since in what can be described as its fine.

I do have other friends who are familiar with the studio albums but aren’t in it to listen to 100+ shows. Probably 10-15 of those. They are fans. They tend to go in the general direction I noted above.

Another friend I have, interestingly enough, saw them on the 2000 tour and wrote them off after being a long time fan. I cajoled him to accompany me to the 2006 show in Albany. Reignited his interest and has seen them maybe 5 more times since. Generally follows what they do, but I think generally big on the first 5, self-titled, and possibly Gigaton.

No, I think that's true, particularly in terms of them as album artists. I think if I've had any conversations about Pearl Jam with someone who wasn't in the fold, so to speak, it has been about their reputation and stature as a live act. I know rock bands don't really hold the cache they once did, but PJ's albums seem to come and go even more quietly than their peers.

I keep revisiting my rankings as the Madness tournament has gone on and I'm finding it harder and harder to find the "right" answer. I go back and forth too much. So, I'm just gonna do tiers. Each of the albums could be ranked in different variations within each respective tier; I'm listing them chronologically in each tier:

Tier 1:
Ten
Vitalogy
Riot Act

These albums are perfect pieces of art. To me they are complete, satisfying experiences and I enjoy listening to these records front to back. They don't seem to falter in my estimation. I believe these records, though they each have highs and lows, are successful pieces that perfectly achieve what they set out to achieve. These are the all-timers, for me. Each one could be (or has been) my favorite PJ album at any given time. Finally, these are the ones that will show up on my greatest albums of all time list for the rest of my life, even as that list inevitably evolves.

Tier 2:
Yield
Gigaton

These are great records that are mostly successful but have one or two minor elements that work against them, keeping them from achieving the same level as the previous tier. If tier one are 5 stars, these albums are 4.5. Enjoyable albums that have one or two spots that lose me, even if only for a minute or two. They each have songs that I consider among the best the band have written/recorded/released but they also have songs that I think are really minor. I tend to be an album guy (meaning, I like to listen to albums more than singles) but these are albums where I to enjoy skipping around or skipping over songs from time to time.

Tier 3:
Vs
No Code
Binaural
Self-Titled

Complicated and messy records. On paper each of these *should* be a top tier album but they each have too many things that keep them down. No Code, for example is a perfect record (and the best thing Pearl Jam have done) right up until Habit. Then the second half of the record is a mixed bag with lows that are hard to overcome. I also still struggle with the production/sound of the record (which I know is an unpopular opinion). It has (what I've described before as) an underwater quality that I can't get past. When it works, it really works. But when it doesn't, it really doesn't. Some variation of that theme applies to each of the above records. Each record has songs I could flat do without (Leash, Habit, Grievance, Comatose). Though, each also contains contenders for best song in the PJ catalog. My love of Small Town, In My Tree, Insignificance, and Marker (for example) are well documented.

Tier 4:
Backspacer
Lightning Bolt

I have a fondness and appreciation for all of Pearl Jam's music. Even the songs at the bottom are songs I've listened to countless times and have given attention to over the years. The records in tier four have their moments but are mostly mediocre and labored efforts. Again, there are things I love about them but they just aren't up to the standards Pearl Jam has set for themselves and for listeners. They also don't add much to the band's sonic legacy. You could cut these, erase them entirely, and what the band is (at least in the studio) would be unaffected by the removal.

very cool joe.

I agree with lot of it, even tough we have strong differences on out rankings. I also dont think Backspacer is that nonessential. Its a very important studio album, had hits, and its very different than the previous ones.

I do agree with LB on that matter.

As someone who loves Lightning Bolt I can still agree with the claim that it is the least sonically essentially of their albums, though I'd disagree regarding Backspacer. I like more songs on Lightning Bolt than, say, No Code, but No Code is the more significant album

I like Lightning Bolt a fair bit more than Backspacer. I even briefly considered putting it up one tier. But ultimately it needed to be where it is. I tried but it just didn't fit.

Backspacer is the only Pearl Jam album that has depreciated over time for me, even in there context of newer material. Bearing the weight of the canon wasn't it's issue. Even songs like Just Breathe which I love and used to consider among their best have fallen over time.

Again, it's Pearl Jam! I still enjoy it for what it is well enough. But it's easily the least of their work for me and by a good margin.