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 Post subject: Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter
PostPosted: Wed November 13, 2013 5:36 pm 
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lowlight79 wrote:
I'll give you an example. I am not pro gun, but he went into his speech in Hartford over the gun issue and the shooting there and it started out good. But then it went on and on and ended up as a typical Ed rant. My friend who is a causal fan, not on either side of the issues, he just wants to drink beer, smoke weed and go to work said an interesting thing after the show. My friend said "I work at a pharmacy and fear everyday that some pyscho is going to come in with a gun, but do some real work, don't make a speech at a concert or in a interview, make change by knowing both side and coming to a way to meet in the middle"

I'm curious how is this Ed's responsibility to do? I'm not being sarcastic here it's just that i don't see why would he have to go beyond raising awareness so to speak.


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 Post subject: Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter
PostPosted: Wed November 13, 2013 7:29 pm 
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Mine wrote:
lowlight79 wrote:
I'll give you an example. I am not pro gun, but he went into his speech in Hartford over the gun issue and the shooting there and it started out good. But then it went on and on and ended up as a typical Ed rant. My friend who is a causal fan, not on either side of the issues, he just wants to drink beer, smoke weed and go to work said an interesting thing after the show. My friend said "I work at a pharmacy and fear everyday that some pyscho is going to come in with a gun, but do some real work, don't make a speech at a concert or in a interview, make change by knowing both side and coming to a way to meet in the middle"

I'm curious how is this Ed's responsibility to do? I'm not being sarcastic here it's just that i don't see why would he have to go beyond raising awareness so to speak.


I think, in general, you raise a good point. But, knowing Ed's history and who he is, I think the point kinda goes beyond raising awareness. He's fanatical and seems to enjoy expressing his often drunken, controversial views on his soap box.

The thing that bothers me about Ed is how hypocritical he is. In this "one" example.... One moment, he's "almost wishing harm upon people" who use guns for sport in a promotion for his new album, yet in another moment he uses sport axes (another deadly weapon) with the new album music behind it (to promote the album). What is the biggest difference between target practice and what he's doing? And, ironically, this isn't even the first time he's showed off his cool sporty axe-throwing thing. Personally, I could not care less if he's chopping down trees to create an axe target or that he's using his axe throwing in a commercial for the album. I don't even care that he's pro-gun control. The problem is... he comes across as an idiotic hypocrite. I would think his management would say "umm, Ed doesn't the whole deadly weapon sport stuff kinda contradict your opinions elsewhere?".. While filming him. But, truth is, he probably filmed that axe stuff first. Plus, he's the one with these opinions, he should know better. He doesn't seem to. Prolly cause, he's either a hypocrite or a complete dolt. That's probably why management tries to keep him in a box.

P.S. I think perhaps the worst part of what he said was not "almost wishing harm upon these people". It was when he continued to say "but, I dont have to. Because it seems like they happen anyway. Seems like every week I'm reading (stuff about shootings and guns laying around)". That part solidified the "almost wishing harm upon these people". Saying that makes him, kinda a complete ahole, if you really think about it. He wishes harm upon parents who buy guns by having kids (or others) get hurt by finding them and using them mistakenly? Who does that? Further who does it in a national interview? And even further, who does it and gets support in doing it? I bet afterwards, he went out and tossed his axes around. Hopefully, he didn't leave them out.


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 Post subject: Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter
PostPosted: Wed November 13, 2013 7:37 pm 
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Does anyone have the statistics on the number of backyard recreational axe tossing murders in this country? I can only assume it is comparable to gun deaths.

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 Post subject: Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter
PostPosted: Wed November 13, 2013 7:41 pm 
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stip wrote:
Does anyone have the statistics on the number of backyard recreational axe tossing murders in this country? I can only assume it is comparable to gun deaths.


Come on stip, I know you poly sci guys don't like numbers and statistics, but in order to really get at the problem, you shouldn't measure X gun injuries/murders vs X axe injuries/murders. You'd have to adjust it by how many people actually use/carry guns (for target practice or perhaps other) vs. how many use/carry (as you call it) "recreational" axe tossing. Then look at injuries/murders for each.

Call me crazy, but I don't think many normal humans have recreational axe tossing games.


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 Post subject: Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter
PostPosted: Wed November 13, 2013 7:45 pm 
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I don't think anybody Vedder included considers him normal.


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 Post subject: Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter
PostPosted: Wed November 13, 2013 7:46 pm 
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Yeah it's a pretty inaccurate comparison. As stupid an activity it appears, axe throwing is hardly comparable to an automatic high powered firearm.

But I do agree that Ed is not a great public speaker and isn't concise regarding his opinions. In fact he was more eloquent when he made those comments 20 years ago about gun deaths being unimaginative. He always seems to cloud his message or come at it from an obtuse angle.


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 Post subject: Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter
PostPosted: Wed November 13, 2013 7:58 pm 
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IlluminEddie wrote:
stip wrote:
Does anyone have the statistics on the number of backyard recreational axe tossing murders in this country? I can only assume it is comparable to gun deaths.


Come on stip, I know you poly sci guys don't like numbers and statistics, but in order to really get at the problem, you shouldn't measure X gun injuries/murders vs X axe injuries/murders. You'd have to adjust it by how many people actually use/carry guns (for target practice or perhaps other) vs. how many use/carry (as you call it) "recreational" axe tossing. Then look at injuries/murders for each.

Call me crazy, but I don't think many normal humans have recreational axe tossing games.


You don't think the fact that its so much easier shooting a gun and killing someone than it is hacking someone to death makes the gun more dangerous? A kid who doesn't know what it is could pick it up and fire it accidentally, its a lot harder to pick up an axe and hack someone to death accidentally. In a fit of anger you can point and shoot and kill someone without much effort, there's a lot more physical force and emotional commitment involved with an axe. Same with knives and bats.


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 Post subject: Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter
PostPosted: Wed November 13, 2013 8:02 pm 
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As an aside, what did you think about Lightning Bolt? You must really love the music to stick with a band who's lead singer you find idiotic, insane and constantly hypocritical. I don't think I could.


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 Post subject: Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter
PostPosted: Wed November 13, 2013 8:33 pm 
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stupidmop wrote:
As an aside, what did you think about Lightning Bolt? You must really love the music to stick with a band who's lead singer you find idiotic, insane and constantly hypocritical. I don't think I could.



I'll field this one. I like LB. I would rank it about half way through the albums. I have Yield, No Code, Ten and Backspacer up high. I have Riot Act, Binaural and S/T very low. Verses and Vitalogy are probably middle ground.

I don't really feel like Ed's an idiot (in totality), I suppose. He simply frustrates me. I respect someone who has a dissenting POV. I may debate with them, but if they can defend their position and don't defy it, I'm cool with it. That's my take. In fact, who knows, if they make some good points, maybe my position will change. I have plenty of friends and family and we're not always in agreement. I respect them though. Yet, with Ed, he seems to break with his position frequently (which bothers me - get to to why in a moment- and is why I often call him a hypocrite). I really wouldn't care, had he not been speaking about issue (that he breaks with) frequently, passionately beforehand on his soapbox (typically I disagree with his position then). So, for me, it's not only the speaking about something so passionately when you are the only one with the mic. It's following through with what you spoke about or lack there of, that bothers me.

I learned about the band early when I was a kid and really kinda fell in love with Pearl Jam, not because I always believed in what they did, but because I believed they stood for something. Call it integrity, if you will. I felt like (early on) they believed in what they were doing and were in a sense trying to make the world a better place. I knew then, like I do now, you don't have to agree with everyone on how to do that, but to want to is special. They had a desire... I can't really find the right word to describe it. I didn't agree with them a lot. But, in a sense, they (or Ed) was at least well-meaning and sincere. The more I've learned, the more I realize they may have been a bit less of that then I had thought (back then) AND it's certainly become more apparent that they aren't really sticking to what they originally felt these days. I mean this is the same band that fought for lower ticket prices, only to charge their fans now to post on their website. They preach about corporate greed, and we have a thread on here about a "money grab". To me, the completely evident hypocrisy has just become kinda sickening. And what really bothers me is, just like at the Republican or Democratic conventions, when you see those drones waving their flags, people still blindly support and think the band is not hypocritical. That bothers me too. Because, the band doesn't care about what we think. At this point, it almost seems like they really just want us to by the new figurine and sweatshirt on their website. If you call them hypocritical, they aren't going to stop making music. If you call them a hypocrite, you can still go to shows. You can still enjoy their music. To me, many fans don't understand that. I think some fans would have a tough time calling Ed a hypocrite if he bought a gun next week.

For Ed, I feel like he's a very good lyricist and a great singer. I enjoy PJ's music. I think he's good at being empathetic (in lyrics), which is part of my frustration. Ed has a soap box. He uses it. I honestly don't think anything really good happens from his use of his soapbox (other than turning some potential friends away), even if he's fighting for an issue I agree with - it's still true. I don't have as much of a problem when he writes political songs, as I do when he speaks about politics. A song is what he does. That's what I like about him.

My issue when he speaks (at shows and intereviews or whatnot), is he seems extremely narrow-minded and coming from someone who "seems" empathetic (with lyrics), it's just weird --- almost seems like an act sometimes, actually. IMHO he doesn't really encourage debate, he wants it his way (which often doesn't even make much sense) and is just some recycled garbage that you know he just read from some other guy. I feel like he really thinks he knows everything, rather than searching for an education and learning the opposition's POV. I don't think someone like him learns much about his position by surrounding himself with people who think exactly like him. I mean he kicked someone out of the band for having a gun, right? If we're all honest, I think one area we could agree on is that Ed's not open-minded regarding politics. Yet, the irony is he wants everyone to be open-minded regarding issues where it seems to benefit his political agenda (gay rights, women's rights, etc.) It's bothersome. It seems to me, that one (who's very rational and reasonable) couldn't even talk to him about an issue like why they have a gun or enjoy the sport involved with it. Personally, I don't have a gun, so I don't see the allure. But, I wouldn't be an asshole to someone on the street who was kind and did have one at home they used for sport... and I certainly wouldn't wish them or their family ill.


Last edited by IlluminEddie on Wed November 13, 2013 9:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter
PostPosted: Wed November 13, 2013 8:52 pm 
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IlluminEddie wrote:
Call me crazy, but I don't think many normal humans have recreational axe tossing games.


I bet a lot more houses have axes than have guns.

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 Post subject: Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter
PostPosted: Wed November 13, 2013 8:54 pm 
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B wrote:
IlluminEddie wrote:
Call me crazy, but I don't think many normal humans have recreational axe tossing games.


I bet a lot more houses have axes than have guns.



But, do they have games set up in their back yard where you are supposed to throw the axes at a target?

Ironically, an axe thrown in the air may be more 'risky to actually hit something i wasn't supposed to' than a bullet. Because it's bigger.


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 Post subject: Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter
PostPosted: Wed November 13, 2013 9:17 pm 
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IlluminEddie wrote:
stupidmop wrote:
As an aside, what did you think about Lightning Bolt? You must really love the music to stick with a band who's lead singer you find idiotic, insane and constantly hypocritical. I don't think I could.



I'll field this one. I like LB. I would rank it about half way through the albums. I have Yield, No Code, Ten and Backspacer up high. I have Riot Act, Binaural and S/T very low. Verses and Vitalogy are probably middle ground.

I don't really feel like Ed's an idiot (in totality), I suppose. He simply frustrates me. I respect someone who has a dissenting POV. I may debate with them, but if they can defend their position and don't defy it, I'm cool with it. That's my take. In fact, who knows, if they make some good points, maybe my position will change. I have plenty of friends and family and we're not always in agreement. I respect them though. Yet, with Ed, he seems to break with his position frequently (which bothers me - get to to why in a moment- and is why I often call him a hypocrite). I really wouldn't care, had he not been speaking about issue (that he breaks with) frequently, passionately beforehand on his soapbox (typically I disagree with his position then). So, for me, it's not only the speaking about something so passionately when you are the only one with the mic. It's following through with what you spoke about or lack there of, that bothers me.

I learned about the band early when I was a kid and really kinda fell in love with Pearl Jam, not because I always believed in what they did, but because I believed they stood for something. Call it integrity, if you will. I felt like (early on) they believed in what they were doing and were in a sense trying to make the world a better place. I knew then, like I do now, you don't have to agree with everyone on how to do that, but to want to is special. They had a desire... I can't really find the right word to describe it. I didn't agree with them a lot. But, in a sense, they (or Ed) was at least well-meaning and sincere. The more I've learned, the more I realize they may have been a bit less of that then I had thought (back then) AND it's certainly become more apparent that they aren't really sticking to what they originally felt these days. I mean this is the same band that fought for lower ticket prices, only to charge their fans now to post on their website. They preach about corporate greed, and we have a thread on here about a "money grab". To me, the completely evident hypocrisy has just become kinda sickening. And what really bothers me is, just like at the Republican or Democratic conventions, when you see those drones waving their flags, people still blindly support and think the band is not hypocritical. That bothers me too. Because, the band doesn't care about what we think. At this point, it almost seems like they really just want us to by the new figurine and sweatshirt on their website. If you call them hypocritical, they aren't going to stop making music. If you call them a hypocrite, you can still go to shows. You can still enjoy their music. To me, many fans don't understand that.

For Ed, I feel like he's a very good lyricist and a great singer. I enjoy PJ's music. I think he's good at being empathetic (in lyrics), which is part of my frustration. Ed has a soap box. He uses it. I honestly don't think anything really good happens from his use of his soapbox (other than turning some potential friends away), even if he's fighting for an issue I agree with - it's still true. I don't have as much of a problem when he writes political songs, as I do when he speaks about politics. A song is what he does. That's what I like about him.

My issue when he speaks (at shows and intereviews or whatnot), is he seems extremely narrow-minded and coming from someone who "seems" empathetic (with lyrics), it's just weird --- almost seems like an act sometimes, actually. IMHO he doesn't really encourage debate, he wants it his way (which often doesn't even make much sense) and is just some recycled garbage that you know he just read from some other guy. I feel like he really thinks he knows everything, rather than searching for an education and learning the opposition's POV. I don't think someone like him learns much about his position by surrounding himself with people who think exactly like him. I mean he kicked someone out of the band for having a gun, right? If we're all honest, I think one area we could agree on is that Ed's not open-minded regarding politics. Yet, the irony is he wants everyone to be open-minded regarding issues where it seems to benefit his political agenda (gay rights, women's rights, etc.) It's bothersome. It seems to me, that one (who's very rational and reasonable) couldn't even talk to him about an issue like why they have a gun or enjoy the sport involved with it. Personally, I don't have a gun, so I don't see the allure. But, I wouldn't be an asshole to someone on the street who was kind and did have one at home they used for sport... and I certainly wouldn't wish them or their family ill.

Cool, I get all that I guess, but I think personally if the band ran things got to a point where I thought they were sickening I'd have to step back from the band a little. I definitely believe the band should get a little shit for some of their recent decisions. Though, I say band because I know ed has the Mic and we get to hear what he has to say more than the other guys, he's not single handedly making the decisions, I have a niggling suspicion that at least some of the discrepancies between what ed says and the band does is down to him conceding to the band on things.

Wasn't he best friends with johnny ramone who was a republican? I assume they had more than a few differing opinions. (I might be thinking about someone else here). I guess to me I put down most of the discrepancies( though I don't usually think about this shit unless it comes up here) in what he says due to the fact that we're only getting snapshots or soundbites of him talking. Like everyone has already mentioned he's not the best or most comfortable public speaker, we don't know what its like to have an actual conversation with him, for all we know he could be an amazing conversationalist when there's not a camera in his face, or a reporter writing things down or thousands of people standing in front of him.

And you could say maybe he shouldnt be talking about things in public at all then, but I think he'd rather feel like he's raising awareness or getting people talking, which he is, if this thread is anything to go by. Plus its not like we've seen him shut down someone trying to have a debate with him, someone asked him a question and he answered.

I still think its easier to kill some one with a gun than an axe. Do you think if there were axe sprees at schools and in malls and on the streets on the regular, and people wanted to ban axes, he'd start ranting about his right to own an axe and chop his own wood?


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 Post subject: Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter
PostPosted: Wed November 13, 2013 9:29 pm 
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stupidmop wrote:
Like everyone has already mentioned he's not the best or most comfortable public speaker

He isn't a "rehearsed" public speaker and he isn't giving well though prepared in advance speeches about this things. He's not even giving interviews specifically on this matters they just pop-up and none of this is his expertise/main occupation. None of this would make anybody sound at their most articulate.


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 Post subject: Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter
PostPosted: Wed November 13, 2013 9:30 pm 
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This seems as good a place as any to post this because this thread is impossibly stupid...

So November is now movember, to bring awareness to "men's health issues"? Lol, that is literally the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard. Awareness to "men's health issues"?! Is this a problem?! are there people out there who believe men are immortal? There is literally nothing less you can do than "not shave" to bring awareness to something as vague as "men's health issues".

At least the wearing pink thing is specific enough to breast cancer. I can't imagine anyone not knowing about it either, and its mostly just good PR for corporations, but at least it has some point.

I don't shave because I'm extraordinarily lazy. That is all the motivation I need.

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 Post subject: Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter
PostPosted: Wed November 13, 2013 9:32 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter
PostPosted: Wed November 13, 2013 9:33 pm 
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BurtReynolds wrote:
This seems as good a place as any to post this because this thread is impossibly stupid...

So November is now movember, to bring awareness to "men's health issues"? Lol, that is literally the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard. Awareness to "men's health issues"?! Is this a problem?! are there people out there who believe men are immortal? There is literally nothing less you can do than "not shave" to bring awareness to something as vague as "men's health issues".

At least the wearing pink thing is specific enough to breast cancer. I can't imagine anyone not knowing about it either, and its mostly just good PR for corporations, but at least it has some point.

I don't shave because I'm extraordinarily lazy. That is all the motivation I need.

lol whaaaaat? This is the first I am hearing of this. That's incredible. So is this the month where we should fondle our balls and finger our anus more?

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 Post subject: Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter
PostPosted: Wed November 13, 2013 9:34 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter
PostPosted: Wed November 13, 2013 9:35 pm 
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LetMeSleep wrote:
Is there any correlation between a moustache and a finger up the arse?


more than mere correlation if you ask me

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 Post subject: Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter
PostPosted: Wed November 13, 2013 9:35 pm 
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LetMeSleep wrote:
Is there any correlation between a moustache and a finger up the arse?



Image


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 Post subject: Re: Eddie's anti gun rant during the the Mark Richards inter
PostPosted: Wed November 13, 2013 9:38 pm 
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Mine wrote:
stupidmop wrote:
Like everyone has already mentioned he's not the best or most comfortable public speaker

He isn't a "rehearsed" public speaker and he isn't giving well though prepared in advance speeches about this things. He's not even giving interviews specifically on this matters they just pop-up and none of this is his expertise/main occupation. None of this would make anybody sound at their most articulate.


Yeah that wasn't a slight on him or anything, he sounds better than I would being put on the spot.

I literally thought movember was just about mustaches....like talk like a pirate day or something


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