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 Post subject: Re: BoB's contributions to Lightning Bolt
PostPosted: Wed October 09, 2013 1:31 pm 
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Copied from another thread and expanded on:

My one prevailing thought about BoB and Pearl Jam's collaboration is that one is definitely not complimenting the other. That jarring disconnect between the two styles and tastes might one day create a really strange magic. It's not happened yet, but they're closer to it here than they were on Backspacer. They've done something right by not just recording run-of-the-mill Pearl Jam songs in a BoB fashion (Backspacer) but actually thinking about bringing in some pop genre expressions and features to compliment the production. In the best spots, Pearl Jam goes pop successfully here. I keep thinking of Robert Palmer in "Infallible", where electronics and gadgetry mesh with rock music quite well and it feels deliberate.

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 Post subject: Re: BoB's contributions to Lightning Bolt
PostPosted: Wed October 09, 2013 1:45 pm 
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harmless wrote:
Copied from another thread and expanded on:

My one prevailing thought about BoB and Pearl Jam's collaboration is that one is definitely not complimenting the other. That jarring disconnect between the two styles and tastes might one day create a really strange magic. It's not happened yet, but they're closer to it here than they were on Backspacer. They've done something right by not just recording run-of-the-mill Pearl Jam songs in a BoB fashion (Backspacer) but actually thinking about bringing in some pop genre expressions and features to compliment the production. In the best spots, Pearl Jam goes pop successfully here. I keep thinking of Robert Palmer in "Infallible", where electronics and gadgetry mesh with rock music quite well and it feels deliberate.


Those are good points.

I really hope we can hear the original demos of these songs someday, though.


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 Post subject: Re: BoB's contributions to Lightning Bolt
PostPosted: Wed October 09, 2013 1:53 pm 
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I think the disconnect feels so vast because of the type of music PJ continues to make, for the most part. For all the myriad little types of experimentation they commit to, they're primarily a rock band looking to capture the feel of a room and the musicians playing in it. That's probably the worst genre to approach with this type of production; nothing takes you out of the room faster than sterilized playing and production. It's why Yellow Moon doesn't take off in the way it possibly could; lots have compared the song to Low Light, and whatever your feelings on the songs, you can listen to one right after the other, and it seems clear what they were doing right in terms of production in Low Light, and wrong in Yellow Moon. Low Light's instruments sound warm and expansive; Yellow Moon sounds like a rock band under glass.

One of the only times it works well is on the verse on Infallible, and that's because the song itself seems meant to be played with this synthetic, glassy feel.


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 Post subject: Re: BoB's contributions to Lightning Bolt
PostPosted: Wed October 09, 2013 2:16 pm 
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digster wrote:
For all the myriad little types of experimentation they commit to, they're primarily a rock band looking to capture the feel of a room and the musicians playing in it.


Are they at this point, though? It sounds to me like they don't care enough, as long as it "sounds good". I would say it's RM wanting them to be "looking to capture the feel of a room...". If they themselves were looking for that, they'd find the right producer, because producers cost money. They throw a lot of money at BoB to do what he does, and while I don't like that much, they know enough about what they're hearing to say it's too synthetic, if they feel that way. The mythical "mid-period" albums sound like they do because it's what PJ wanted. Unfortunately I don't think the theory that BoB is forcing them to sound like this holds water. I used to, and I've changed my mind.

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 Post subject: Re: BoB's contributions to Lightning Bolt
PostPosted: Wed October 09, 2013 2:19 pm 
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As I say though, on the next album, if they go with BoB again, I hope that the songs sound even more at home with the production, like "Infallible" does. Actually, one of the reviews said exactly that, and now I think it was a really perceptive comment. It was something like: This shiny approach is fine when it results in "Infallible", but not when..." etc.

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 Post subject: Re: BoB's contributions to Lightning Bolt
PostPosted: Wed October 09, 2013 7:07 pm 
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digster wrote:
like a rock band under glass

Yes.


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 Post subject: Re: BoB's contributions to Lightning Bolt
PostPosted: Wed October 09, 2013 7:17 pm 
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harmless wrote:
digster wrote:
For all the myriad little types of experimentation they commit to, they're primarily a rock band looking to capture the feel of a room and the musicians playing in it.


Are they at this point, though? It sounds to me like they don't care enough, as long as it "sounds good".
I would say it's RM wanting them to be "looking to capture the feel of a room...". If they themselves were looking for that, they'd find the right producer, because producers cost money. They throw a lot of money at BoB to do what he does, and while I don't like that much, they know enough about what they're hearing to say it's too synthetic, if they feel that way. The mythical "mid-period" albums sound like they do because it's what PJ wanted. Unfortunately I don't think the theory that BoB is forcing them to sound like this holds water. I used to, and I've changed my mind.


I can't say for sure what they're intending to do, but for the most part when I hear any of their records it sounds like guitar rock with varying levels of studio wizardry. I don't think they've ever stepped outside of that live performance feel, even in studio.


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 Post subject: Re: BoB's contributions to Lightning Bolt
PostPosted: Wed October 09, 2013 7:20 pm 
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All I know is, Brendan doesn't write PJ's songs for them. Garbage in, garbage out. People are far too eager to blame him for shit the band does.

Although I will say that there is too much piano and percussion on this album.


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 Post subject: Re: BoB's contributions to Lightning Bolt
PostPosted: Wed October 09, 2013 7:23 pm 
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digster wrote:
harmless wrote:
digster wrote:
For all the myriad little types of experimentation they commit to, they're primarily a rock band looking to capture the feel of a room and the musicians playing in it.


Are they at this point, though? It sounds to me like they don't care enough, as long as it "sounds good".
I would say it's RM wanting them to be "looking to capture the feel of a room...". If they themselves were looking for that, they'd find the right producer, because producers cost money. They throw a lot of money at BoB to do what he does, and while I don't like that much, they know enough about what they're hearing to say it's too synthetic, if they feel that way. The mythical "mid-period" albums sound like they do because it's what PJ wanted. Unfortunately I don't think the theory that BoB is forcing them to sound like this holds water. I used to, and I've changed my mind.


I can't say for sure what they're intending to do, but for the most part when I hear any of their records it sounds like guitar rock with varying levels of studio wizardry. I don't think they've ever stepped outside of that live performance feel, even in studio.


Yes, but they are doing that *now*, which is your complaint and my point. There's a change but it's one they seem to be perfectly fine with.

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 Post subject: Re: BoB's contributions to Lightning Bolt
PostPosted: Wed October 09, 2013 7:24 pm 
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benton netty wrote:
All I know is, Brendan doesn't write PJ's songs for them. Garbage in, garbage out. People are far too eager to blame him for shit the band does.

Although I will say that there is too much piano and percussion on this album.

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 Post subject: Re: BoB's contributions to Lightning Bolt
PostPosted: Wed October 09, 2013 7:56 pm 
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I think all the clinky-clanky shit in the background is unnecessary, but that's just my opinion. There was a lot of it on Binaural, too.


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 Post subject: Re: BoB's contributions to Lightning Bolt
PostPosted: Wed October 09, 2013 10:20 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: BoB's contributions to Lightning Bolt
PostPosted: Sat October 12, 2013 8:53 pm 
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A lot of the harshness I bitched about was from the stream, and isn't as much of a problem in the CD rip. I don't like some of the digital artifacts in Ed's vocals on a lot of this (think the first minute of Lightning Bolt) and the sterility is just awful. I'm tired of these clinical albums that have no atmosphere to them. It doesn't have to be all spacey, but it can at least have character.


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