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 Post subject: Re: A safe place for discussion and appreciation of Jack Iro
PostPosted: Sun September 04, 2016 7:53 pm 
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Birds in Hell wrote:
Strat wrote:
evenslow wrote:
Strat wrote:
I thought he was suffering from severe carpel tunnel syndrome at the time?

There's that clip in Single Video Theory of them dumping ice buckets on his arms.

I thought that was also why they had guest drummers for many of their shows together so that jack could take a break.

I wouldn't say it was many times - Dave Grohl jumped on drums for the last (or next-to-last) song four times on the 1995 Aus/NZ tour and Chad Smith jumped on for Maggot Brain that one time, also in 1995.

Never happened after 1995 and I suspect it was probably an opportunistic thing, like Chad playing on RITFW in New Orleans or when Dave jumped on drums again for one song a few years back.

The idea that Jack couldn't handle the shows is, in my opinion, a bit of an obfuscation the band have willingly encouraged over the years to justify having cut him loose when they landed Matt.

Yes, he had to ice his arms and whatnot, but I've listened to a lot of shows and can't hear that it was affecting the band's performances.

Jack's not the first drummer they've treated as ultimately expendable. Particularly in the early days of the band, I think they've been very single-minded in trying not to let anything derail their career to the extent that they treated some of those guys quite poorly. I'm sure they know it too to some degree and it makes them uncomfortable, hence the half-answers and excuses that don't add up, etc. (speaking in reference to Krusen and Abbruzzese here too)



Ed was pretty gay for Jack Irons. This sounds like a bit of your personal disgust and disappointment with him not being int he band, rather than the band treating him as expendable.


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 Post subject: Re: A safe place for discussion and appreciation of Jack Iro
PostPosted: Sun September 04, 2016 8:30 pm 
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Strat wrote:
Ed was pretty gay for Jack Irons.

Yeah, I'm inclined to go along with most of spenno's argument but then I remember this.

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 Post subject: Re: A safe place for discussion and appreciation of Jack Iro
PostPosted: Sun September 04, 2016 10:03 pm 
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I don't recall Ed ever giving the excuse that Jack couldn't handle the band's live performances, I've heard it from the other members of the band.

You're misreading me if you think I'm trying to build a case that letting Jack go was some great injustice - I'm just saying the oft-repeated story doesn't really add up. Jack himself has said it was his mental health that caused him to walk out and the recordings of the shows don't sound like a guy who is struggling musically.


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 Post subject: Re: A safe place for discussion and appreciation of Jack Iro
PostPosted: Sun September 04, 2016 10:15 pm 
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Birds in Hell wrote:
I don't recall Ed ever giving the excuse that Jack couldn't handle the band's live performances, I've heard it from the other members of the band.

You're misreading me if you think I'm trying to build a case that letting Jack go was some great injustice - I'm just saying the oft-repeated story doesn't really add up. Jack himself has said it was his mental health that caused him to walk out and the recordings of the shows don't sound like a guy who is struggling musically.

Can't it be all of it? Physical and mental? They are often related. Im sure he was pushing himself to his max every show, no doubt.


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 Post subject: Re: A safe place for discussion and appreciation of Jack Iro
PostPosted: Sun September 04, 2016 10:25 pm 
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Quote:
Vedder says the band met Irons’ unexpected resignation in March 1998 with love and support. “As upsetting as it was at the time – it’s not like I could have more respect for the guy – but I’ve always respected that decision,” Vedder says. “Because it’s one thing to be completely devoted to music and feel it in an organic way and to be pure about it. And then it’s another to be in a big band playing big shows and big tours and big records. And working with the machinery of rock and roll, and keeping a big band afloat business-wise, and all that. It’s a balancing act, those two things. And it’s completely understandable if it seems difficult for someone who’s so purely dedicated to the art to have a hard time with the other side.”
The band quickly recruited Soundgarden’s Matt Cameron to play the Yield tour’s American leg. Four albums later, Cameron remains Pearl Jam’s drummer.


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 Post subject: Re: A safe place for discussion and appreciation of Jack Iro
PostPosted: Sun September 04, 2016 10:26 pm 
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Quote:
Irons last took the stage in May 2007 when he joined former bandmates Vedder and Flea in Hollywood for a set at Hullabaloo, which benefited the bassist’s nonprofit Silverlake Conservatory Of Music for low-income students. Pearl Jam’s leader recalls performing that night with the man who handed him that fateful cassette 20 years ago.
“It was beyond the beyond,” says Vedder. “It was completely invigorating. And we had actually talked about doing some more later on that year. Physically, I couldn’t do it. Otherwise, I would’ve. So maybe that door is still open.”

http://www.drummagazine.com/features/post/jack-is-back


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 Post subject: Re: A safe place for discussion and appreciation of Jack Iro
PostPosted: Sun September 04, 2016 10:42 pm 
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Someone should make one of those Xtra Normal videos to really get to the bottom of this.


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 Post subject: Re: A safe place for discussion and appreciation of Jack Iro
PostPosted: Mon September 05, 2016 12:27 am 
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Birds in Hell wrote:
I don't recall Ed ever giving the excuse that Jack couldn't handle the band's live performances, I've heard it from the other members of the band.

You're misreading me if you think I'm trying to build a case that letting Jack go was some great injustice - I'm just saying the oft-repeated story doesn't really add up. Jack himself has said it was his mental health that caused him to walk out and the recordings of the shows don't sound like a guy who is struggling musically.


I personally think his leaving had elements from both the mental and physical aspects behind it. I remember reading an interview with him saying how tough the shows were. I'll look for it. He may have made it thru the shows, but that doesn't mean he wasn't totally exhausted after them.


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 Post subject: Re: A safe place for discussion and appreciation of Jack Iro
PostPosted: Mon September 05, 2016 2:25 pm 
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Ed fired Dave A because he challenged his monkeywrench persona

Jerome Turner hired Jack because he enabled his monkeywrench persona

Ed busted his monkeywrench nut and then wanted to ramp up the number of shows again, using ticketmaster venues; and Jack was not mentally equipped to keep that kind of pace

Matt Cameron wanted a piece of one of those "big money" tours

Ed tossed Matt's salad endlessly throughout the tour

They all kind of decided they wanted him to stay

Jack was fine taking a permanent step back because he just cares about his art for the sake of art and that is not dependent on a commercial apparatus

And now you can buy four different $30 PJ event posters, dog collars, stool sample cups, and sticker sets in a 6 hour line at a ticketmaster venue to commemorate the 20th anniversary of Monkeywrench radio; sponsored by Comcast Corp


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 Post subject: Re: A safe place for discussion and appreciation of Jack Iro
PostPosted: Mon September 05, 2016 2:51 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: A safe place for discussion and appreciation of Jack Iro
PostPosted: Thu September 22, 2016 7:35 am 
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Does anyone have or know of any good live photos of Jack drumming with PJ? Whole band, just him, whatever...


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 Post subject: Re: A safe place for discussion and appreciation of Jack Iro
PostPosted: Thu September 22, 2016 2:43 pm 
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I miss Jackie. But it well documented that he was in a pretty weird place around 1997. He had the same thing with RHCP too...Anthony talks about it in his book.

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 Post subject: Re: A safe place for discussion and appreciation of Jack Iro
PostPosted: Thu September 22, 2016 2:57 pm 
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Lots of revisionism going on. Read the PJ20 book. Jack is extremely forthcoming and honest about his struggles. HE COULDN'T HANDLE IT. Not the volume of shows, not the length of the shows. None of it. Major panic attacks, bipolar disorder. Am I saying anything new here? Great creative artist and awesome drummer. If PJ went the quieter route, maybe it could have worked, but I doubt it.

Imagine the last 18 years if all we got were: 20-22 songs a show, about 1:50, including lots of inconsistent performances, delayed tours, cancelled shows, and resulting band turmoil. Listen to the bootlegs, and I'm not just talking about that 2-3 you really love and look back on. Listen to a few more, it's pretty bad. We wouldn't even be on this board discussing, it'd be over by now. I'm sure lots of people on RM would be happy about this, but it's a minority in the overall fanbase.

I'm a Jack fan, if he stuck around for the Binaural sessions, as creative as the band was at the time and w/ the right producer, we'd have the best album they ever had by far. Their best studio drummer. But we wouldn't have the live juggernaught we have now if it wasn't for Matt. I'm just taking Jack at Jack's word, he even compliments Lo2L over his Austrailian performance, he's pretty honest with himself and seems like a great guy and great soul and awesomely creative drummer.


Last edited by Tuolumne on Thu September 22, 2016 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A safe place for discussion and appreciation of Jack Iro
PostPosted: Thu September 22, 2016 3:05 pm 
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Birds in Hell wrote:


I just came here to post this video, but I had to check this thread again.

You da man, Spenno.


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 Post subject: Re: A safe place for discussion and appreciation of Jack Iro
PostPosted: Fri September 23, 2016 2:05 am 
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matt reeder wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:


I just came here to post this video, but I had to check this thread again.

You da man, Spenno.

Jesus fuck, that snare work... :luv:

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 Post subject: Re: A safe place for discussion and appreciation of Jack Iro
PostPosted: Fri September 23, 2016 2:23 am 
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 Post subject: Re: A safe place for discussion and appreciation of Jack Iro
PostPosted: Wed September 28, 2016 5:34 am 
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Tuolumne wrote:
Lots of revisionism going on. Read the PJ20 book. Jack is extremely forthcoming and honest about his struggles. HE COULDN'T HANDLE IT. Not the volume of shows, not the length of the shows. None of it. Major panic attacks, bipolar disorder. Am I saying anything new here? Great creative artist and awesome drummer. If PJ went the quieter route, maybe it could have worked, but I doubt it.

Imagine the last 18 years if all we got were: 20-22 songs a show, about 1:50, including lots of inconsistent performances, delayed tours, cancelled shows, and resulting band turmoil. Listen to the bootlegs, and I'm not just talking about that 2-3 you really love and look back on. Listen to a few more, it's pretty bad. We wouldn't even be on this board discussing, it'd be over by now. I'm sure lots of people on RM would be happy about this, but it's a minority in the overall fanbase.

I'm a Jack fan, if he stuck around for the Binaural sessions, as creative as the band was at the time and w/ the right producer, we'd have the best album they ever had by far. Their best studio drummer. But we wouldn't have the live juggernaught we have now if it wasn't for Matt. I'm just taking Jack at Jack's word, he even compliments Lo2L over his Austrailian performance, he's pretty honest with himself and seems like a great guy and great soul and awesomely creative drummer.


Yeah I've read a couple of interviews where he has discussed his mental health issues at the time being the reason he had to step away form the band. I also got the impression that he was hoping they'd put things on hold till he was better and able to tour again but the big machine had other thoughts. The initial vibes put out by the PJ camp seemed to hint at physical limitations with the long shows being the issue though that's for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: A safe place for discussion and appreciation of Jack Iro
PostPosted: Thu September 29, 2016 7:52 pm 
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Fuzzcharger wrote:
Tuolumne wrote:
Lots of revisionism going on. Read the PJ20 book. Jack is extremely forthcoming and honest about his struggles. HE COULDN'T HANDLE IT. Not the volume of shows, not the length of the shows. None of it. Major panic attacks, bipolar disorder. Am I saying anything new here? Great creative artist and awesome drummer. If PJ went the quieter route, maybe it could have worked, but I doubt it.

Imagine the last 18 years if all we got were: 20-22 songs a show, about 1:50, including lots of inconsistent performances, delayed tours, cancelled shows, and resulting band turmoil. Listen to the bootlegs, and I'm not just talking about that 2-3 you really love and look back on. Listen to a few more, it's pretty bad. We wouldn't even be on this board discussing, it'd be over by now. I'm sure lots of people on RM would be happy about this, but it's a minority in the overall fanbase.

I'm a Jack fan, if he stuck around for the Binaural sessions, as creative as the band was at the time and w/ the right producer, we'd have the best album they ever had by far. Their best studio drummer. But we wouldn't have the live juggernaught we have now if it wasn't for Matt. I'm just taking Jack at Jack's word, he even compliments Lo2L over his Austrailian performance, he's pretty honest with himself and seems like a great guy and great soul and awesomely creative drummer.


Yeah I've read a couple of interviews where he has discussed his mental health issues at the time being the reason he had to step away form the band. I also got the impression that he was hoping they'd put things on hold till he was better and able to tour again but the big machine had other thoughts. The initial vibes put out by the PJ camp seemed to hint at physical limitations with the long shows being the issue though that's for sure.


That's interesting. The alternate universe of what if they delayed the tour. I would think that would have turned out poorly. The band, and even moreso the fans, really needed that 1998 tour. That tour was such a gamechanger in terms of building the touring culture that exists today. That was the beginning of the band being able to operate and succeed without needing the hit record or presence on MTV. It wasn't the early 90s anymore, "grunge" was offically declared dead, and even if PJ reallyed wanted back into the mainstream, the mainstream wasn't having it, they'd moved on. That summer tour was foundational for everything that exists today. If they cancelled or delayed, it would have changed that opportunity and deflated that touring momentum. Yield was sort of looked at as pretty underwhelming commercially and the fans showing up meant everything. If the band wouldn't have showed up, I have trouble imaging how they could have continued. I wonder if the hardcore fans would have just bailed with the rest of those that left the band after No Code.


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 Post subject: Re: A safe place for discussion and appreciation of Jack Iro
PostPosted: Fri September 30, 2016 12:24 am 
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Tuolumne wrote:
That's interesting. The alternate universe of what if they delayed the tour. I would think that would have turned out poorly. The band, and even moreso the fans, really needed that 1998 tour. That tour was such a gamechanger in terms of building the touring culture that exists today.


That's a really good point, I never thought of it in those terms. That said if Jack did still do a "delayed 1998 tour" and remain in the band I think his health issues would have got the better of him at some stage and he'd have to leave.

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 Post subject: Re: A safe place for discussion and appreciation of Jack Iro
PostPosted: Fri September 30, 2016 1:01 am 
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evenslow wrote:
matt reeder wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:


I just came here to post this video, but I had to check this thread again.

You da man, Spenno.

Jesus fuck, that snare work... :luv:

Holy shit this band used to be so good

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