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Just going back to what Bono said: Was he overlooking the fact that time moves on and the race becomes unwinnable? Doesn’t rock’s place in the culture affect how you understand the parameters of your job?
One thing I’ll say: I would go see Dead Moon, The much-loved, beautifully savage garage-rock trio from Clackamas, Ore. these three people with the candle on the drum set and the ritual and the sweat and the love — those were some of the most glorious shows of my life. As good as the Who in 1980 at the San Diego Sports Arena; as good as Fugazi shows where everyone paid $5 and it was at a V.F.W. hall. There’s nothing in any other type of music that can ever eclipse that. So I guess I don’t think about what you’re asking. At the risk of sounding whatever, we haven’t had an issue selling tickets over the years. If there’s been ebbs and flows in the amount of people that care, we’ve had enough people that cared and continued to care that we haven’t noticed. I don’t know if that’s been for better or worse. At least we’re not chasing anything.
I have a question about not chasing things: When you got started in music, the idea of not selling out was central. Now the concept has basically disappeared.
This is good news! This means that the fragrance that I’m about to put out won’t be looked down upon!
“Smell Out”! But along those same lines, there also used to be so much more ambivalence about fame. How did we get from there to here?
As far as fame, when we were getting successful, it was like being on a freight train. You’re in the engine room; there are no windows; you feel the velocity but don’t know where the train is going; there might be limited communication with whoever is in the conductor’s seat. When you realize that’s happening, you try to take over the train. We thought, We’ve got to slow down or change direction because there might be a bridge that’s blown out and it’ll all go away. But to circle back to selling out: You could be a band that was concerned about ticket prices, concerned about T-shirt prices, concerned about ticket surcharge prices — you could do all that and then, cut to 10 or five years later, and music was not something that people had to pay for. Is that part of the evolution? People said, If nobody is going to pay for the music, then we’re going to have to figure something else out. You had to find other ways to maintain.
Do you think any ripples from that Gen X, alt-culture explosion extended to the present?
You know, I used to work in San Diego loading gear at a club. I’d end up being at shows that I wouldn’t have chosen to go to — bands that monopolized late-’80s MTV. The metal bands that — I’m trying to be nice — I despised. “Girls, Girls, Girls” and Mötley Crüe: [expletive] you. I hated it. I hated how it made the fellas look. I hated how it made the women look. It felt so vacuous. Guns N’ Roses came out and, thank God, at least had some teeth. But I’m circling back to say that one thing that I appreciated was that in Seattle and the alternative crowd, the girls could wear their combat boots and sweaters, and their hair looked like Cat Power’s and not Heather Locklear’s — nothing against her. They weren’t selling themselves short. They could have an opinion and be respected. I think that’s a change that lasted. It sounds so trite, but before then it was bustiers. The only person who wore a bustier in the ’90s that I could appreciate was Perry Farrell.3
You’re relatively rare among male singers in big rock bands in that you write sometimes from the perspective of women, including on the new album’s “Fallout Today.” You’ve also been outspoken for a long time about abortion rights, which is also, I think, rare for men in your position. How did that sympathy develop?
Without getting into specifics, my thinking about abortion germinated from personal experience. The issue has only grown in importance for me. The real issue is not allowing women to have control of their own bodies and their own futures. If it was a men’s issue, it wouldn’t be an issue. I’ve always felt that as males maybe we shouldn’t be part of the discussion. I would gladly surrender my place in it if every other man did too. It’s frustrating because we’re rehashing issues that seemingly had been dealt with fairly responsibly. It reminds me of “Bob Roberts”. “The times they are a-changing back.” The fact that these rights are still in jeopardy — it feels like we’re trying to cure polio again.
It remains the case — unless I’m making unfair assumptions — that there are probably plenty of people in the audience at your shows whose politics are more conservative than your own. Is that ever perplexing?
A singer in a rock ’n’ roll band is not going to be able to reshape all the things that he’d like to. You can maybe suggest ideas; maybe some people sing along to something, and they don’t know what it’s about until one day it clicks. I’ve had it happen where I didn’t understand a Who lyric until I was in my late 30s and I’d been singing it since I was 14: “How Many Friends?” But who is the audience, or how can I reach them? I don’t have the bandwidth for it.
That was an intentionally hostile interview. One of many examples is the interviewer all but stating that pj's new material isn't as good as their old stuff - point me to a non-hostile interview where a musician has to answer something like that. Respect to Ed for appearing unfazed throughout the whole thing and keeping it civil.
Yeah i found myself cringing and getting frustrated with the interviewer early on, but the ending and the back and forth about suicide i thought was interesting and redeemed the piece.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 3:35 pm Posts: 32280 Location: Buenos Aires
Quote:
I’ve had conversations with Bono back in the day. He was suggesting that we needed to work harder and that you didn’t want rock ’n’ roll to become a niche. But they didn't want to be part of the mainstream of American rock. Instead of doing it with this, it was like having a bunch of other people there that were playing on this stage, playing on a bunch of American rock songs. And one of those songs is 'Honey's Song'’—and we were a little stunned when we found out it was in the same song as that. People have just been living through that for, like, about a couple of years, and some of the critics, including our own editors and that was really close to where I'm going now, but I went on Instagram and saw my daughter getting up there in the middle of the night wearing all that gear and it was fucking hot and I wanted to go to her movie. I went online and had a photo of her, because she's a pretty sweet girl. But all this went away. I mean, my life really began in 2011 when she was growing up, and then she got into pop music. She was pretty good, but she was about four years old in her third year of college at West Virginia University, where we performed in front of 10,000 people in Charleston, WV. This was her second year here.
Joined: Tue January 01, 2013 3:35 pm Posts: 32280 Location: Buenos Aires
Quote:
As far as fame, when we were getting successful, it was like being on a freight train. You’re in the engine room; there are no windows; you have a rock musician in the engine, you are your own mother. There's a nose, you have a nice nose. You're in the car, and it's hot. So you're sitting at this chair, you're breathing hard, and you just kind of start to sing. You don't sing for a lot of a few nights. But in this moment, you come back to the chair, so I don't know what you're trying to tell us. I got a headache one time, and I didn't know what to do. We got back to work. We got the job done.
That was an intentionally hostile interview. One of many examples is the interviewer all but stating that pj's new material isn't as good as their old stuff - point me to a non-hostile interview where a musician has to answer something like that. Respect to Ed for appearing unfazed throughout the whole thing and keeping it civil.
Yeah i found myself cringing and getting frustrated with the interviewer early on, but the ending and the back and forth about suicide i thought was interesting and redeemed the piece.
Would the interviewer cringe reading RM? Maybe...
I found myself getting a little defensive for Ed. Like, who the F is this guy to be telling Ed his music isn't as good now? I went for a walk and put on Getaway>Comes Then Goes>Brother the Cloud. It's the first time I've enjoyed Getaway in years.
You guys in Pearl Jam have been working together for more than 30 years, which is unusual for any group of people, let alone a band. What do you know about compromise?
You could say compromise, you could also say acceptance. I feel that in some ways artistically it’s been better in the last 10 years than ever. In the old days — and I’ll speak for myself — there was more being selfish or insecure. Do I have enough songs on this record? What’s my input? We’ve matured enough to accept each other the way we are and also accept the way that we’ve grown. It’s less territorial. Everyone feels heard.
Not to ask the jerky question, but what do you say to the idea that it’s good that you guys are having a better time making the records but maybe the records were better when it was a struggle?
Our job is not to make records that people like. Our job is to make the music that makes us feel proud. I’ve been pondering your questions: Is there something I’m missing here? Am I supposed to be thinking about what other people are thinking? Because with songwriting it’s almost like you can’t think about it in order to let it happen. Getting to some authenticity or relaying some experience — it’s about getting out of the way.
There is one song in particular on the new album that I’m hoping you can talk about: “Brother the Cloud.” To my ears it sounds like it’s about trying to understand the suicide of a friend. I have my own hunch, but can you tell me what inspired it?
I’d rather leave it interpretive. The general thing I can say is that some people leave this planet, and it could be by accident, design, tragedy or all of the above.
The line that I keep thinking about is “Put your arms around my brother, my friend, say for me, [expletive] you.” In the larger context of the song it sounds like you’re getting at the anger that can come alongside the sadness of a suicide. Is that off the mark?
Well, it’s frustrating when you are deeply saddened by a loss, but it’s out of balance with the anger that you feel.
I lost my best friend to suicide, and I’ll say that the link between sadness and anger in that song is very recognizable.
Can I ask you about that?
Oh, gosh. I don’t know if I have anything to say. I know it’s personal.
But just so I have another perspective.
Yeah, OK.
How is your level of forgiveness? Has it stopped growing? Do you feel like it will keep growing? I think the mature thing is to understand that maybe it wasn’t completely his choice. How have you felt about the forgiveness?
I think it’s about finding a way to accept conflicting feelings. Now I have it to where 90 percent of the time I feel gratitude for having had that person in my life at all. The other 10 percent of the time I think, Why did you do that, you idiot?
Ninety percent is very good. I wish I could get to that. And then how much do you feel the frustration of, OK, we were that close, and you didn’t come to me?
I’m sorry, it makes me emotional to talk about. I don’t want to hijack this interview.
You’re relating to something. It’s valid.
Of course you go down the rabbit hole of: Why didn’t he call that day? What if I’d called that day? But that’ll drive you crazy. It’s not fair to beat yourself up about that. Is that what you’ve been doing?
Maybe that’s why the song was there waiting to get out. The music goes where it goes.
Joined: Thu January 31, 2013 7:03 am Posts: 4509 Location: by the ocean
bodysnatcher wrote:
Great interview. Glad to see someone take Ed to task with some hard questions. Typically not something you see with Ed interviews. Like Argo said, I’m glad he didn’t let him off the hook when he gave typically vague answers or told stories he’s told a million times.
yeah, one of the better interviews i've read in some time. i love the irony of anyone who posts on rm having the attitude of "who the hell is that guy to not treat eddie like a genius king at all times!?"
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Dev wrote:
those who are fulfilled by life are either simpletons or lack conscientiousness.
I didn't think it was 'hostile' at all, the guy just gently pushed on Ed to be clear about what he was saying (always a challenge). To be honest, I think he could've pushed harder on occasion.
Well, again, the interviewer accused him of hypocrisy and selling out throughout, and also implied that their music isn't as good as it used to be. For what it's worth, I agree with the interviewer for the most part. The only interviews I've seen that resemble this one, though, are hostile. EV isn't a politician making policy decisions. He isn't really a relevant pop culture figure at all anymore. I just don't see this exchange falling in the spectrum of normal interviews of musicians.
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