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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Jam (self titled): Official Album Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 1:40 pm 
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If you can believe Ed, he wrote Unthought Known in one night and then performed it solo almost immediately afterwards (Newark 2008). The final full band milquetoast version is barely different than the solo one.


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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Jam (self titled): Official Album Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 1:52 pm 
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evenslow wrote:
Mine wrote:
Ed's song are the most consistently liked throughout their career by the people who vote/rank the songs, so the argument that he is the weak link doesn't really hold water (except to the 5-7 people who keep posting here).

You're right, Ed is not the "weak link." I just wish he would spend more time on difficult ideas that could be spun into gold. If not that, then hire a headstrong producer with a focused idea of where he wants to take the group thematically, and give in to that a little bit.

The off-the-cuff, immediate style of recording would be completely fine... if they released albums much more frequently (see: Young, Neil). But it's hard to go that route every 4 years and really have it work for you.

I think their issue with developing ideas is that most of them are much more interested in the idea of writing than writing itself when it comes down to it.

That quote you posted earlier actually says something interesting, and i remember them referencing it while promoting LB. Ed tries to write lyrics to whatever the band brings in. This also means that there is zero quality control and at this point they know how to avoid those battles (that served as quality control) they used to have in the past.

Also notice how he implies they used to be better when they used to take time to get things right while the rest of the band tends to say they are they best they ever were. They did hire a producer like you described, one Ed didn't go along with in the past interestingly.


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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Jam (self titled): Official Album Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 1:53 pm 
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E.H. Ruddock wrote:
Mine wrote:
Matt just isn't someone who seems particularly interested in writing

wait what?

wait what, what?


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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Jam (self titled): Official Album Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 1:54 pm 
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EJ wrote:
If you can believe Ed, he wrote Unthought Known in one night and then performed it solo almost immediately afterwards (Newark 2008). The final full band milquetoast version is barely different than the solo one.

True, but lightning bolt is a good example of a song where you can see Eddie's basic part but it's the things the band does that really make that song. It's a great example of everyone's parts elevating the song.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Jam (self titled): Official Album Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 2:07 pm 
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stip wrote:
EJ wrote:
If you can believe Ed, he wrote Unthought Known in one night and then performed it solo almost immediately afterwards (Newark 2008). The final full band milquetoast version is barely different than the solo one.

True, but lightning bolt is a good example of a song where you can see Eddie's basic part but it's the things the band does that really make that song. It's a great example of everyone's parts elevating the song.

And then Ed's vocal track and the one-dimensional mix brining it right back down. I know there's a good song in there, but the execution is bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Jam (self titled): Official Album Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 2:13 pm 
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stip wrote:
EJ wrote:
If you can believe Ed, he wrote Unthought Known in one night and then performed it solo almost immediately afterwards (Newark 2008). The final full band milquetoast version is barely different than the solo one.

True, but lightning bolt is a good example of a song where you can see Eddie's basic part but it's the things the band does that really make that song. It's a great example of everyone's parts elevating the song.


Except for BOB's muddy pawprints all over this song.


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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Jam (self titled): Official Album Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 2:50 pm 
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LetMeSleep wrote:
evenslow wrote:
LetMeSleep wrote:
I bet he went the long slog on Lightning Bolt, Swallowed Whole, Unthought Known, Speed Of Sound to name a few on the last album. Of course, he's more inspired by his own tracks.

The last three you mentioned are actually perfect examples of that quick "unthought" style of songwriting.

You think lyrically too? I'm not sure. I think he labours over a lot of his lyrics. Getaway I can see as that "unthought" style.

I meant more musically. But come to think of it, nothing about those lyrics screams "overthought" to me really.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Jam (self titled): Official Album Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 2:53 pm 
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Mine wrote:
They did hire a producer like you described, one Ed didn't go along with in the past interestingly.

Right, but Brendan has never had any interest in pushing them in new directions with regard to songwriting philosophy or theme or expansion of boundaries. He might be headstrong, but he's completely utilitarian, from how they describe him.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Jam (self titled): Official Album Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 7:40 pm 
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tragabigzanda wrote:
stip wrote:
EJ wrote:
If you can believe Ed, he wrote Unthought Known in one night and then performed it solo almost immediately afterwards (Newark 2008). The final full band milquetoast version is barely different than the solo one.

True, but lightning bolt is a good example of a song where you can see Eddie's basic part but it's the things the band does that really make that song. It's a great example of everyone's parts elevating the song.

And then Ed's vocal track and the one-dimensional mix brining it right back down. I know there's a good song in there, but the execution is bad.


Ed's vocal track is actually pretty good after the first verse. The second and third verses in particular (the chorus is ok)

And I agree, EJ, this is one of the songs BoB did no favors.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Jam (self titled): Official Album Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 8:37 pm 
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evenslow wrote:
Mine wrote:
They did hire a producer like you described, one Ed didn't go along with in the past interestingly.

Right, but Brendan has never had any interest in pushing them in new directions with regard to songwriting philosophy or theme or expansion of boundaries. He might be headstrong, but he's completely utilitarian, from how they describe him.

There isn't a head strong enough to be able to push Pearl Jam in a direction they don't want to take. They picked him for a reason.

I think a serious analysis about what works and doesn't for them has to start with understanding what worked for them in the past. It's something the band never understood in the 1st place and it's at the core of their current issues.
I don't think Pearl Jam need to experiment or deviate their sound significantly from what they've done so far. I'd be more than ok with them doing what they're actually good at, as opposed to trying something new and not really succeeding. I mean this very practically. I don't care if they tried something new if doesn't work out when i'm picking what music to listen to. I'd rather pick someone else who's better at where Pearl Jam is relatively weak.


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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Jam (self titled): Official Album Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 12:57 am 
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Wendy Carlos's Twin wrote:
Seriously, I've written better riffs while I was taking a shit.


Pictures or it never happened.


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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Jam (self titled): Official Album Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 1:01 am 
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Mine wrote:
evenslow wrote:
Mine wrote:
They did hire a producer like you described, one Ed didn't go along with in the past interestingly.

Right, but Brendan has never had any interest in pushing them in new directions with regard to songwriting philosophy or theme or expansion of boundaries. He might be headstrong, but he's completely utilitarian, from how they describe him.

There isn't a head strong enough to be able to push Pearl Jam in a direction they don't want to take. They picked him for a reason.

I think a serious analysis about what works and doesn't for them has to start with understanding what worked for them in the past. It's something the band never understood in the 1st place and it's at the core of their current issues.
I don't think Pearl Jam need to experiment or deviate their sound significantly from what they've done so far. I'd be more than ok with them doing what they're actually good at, as opposed to trying something new and not really succeeding. I mean this very practically. I don't care if they tried something new if doesn't work out when i'm picking what music to listen to. I'd rather pick someone else who's better at where Pearl Jam is relatively weak.

After 10 studio albums, I'm ready for a noble failure.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Jam (self titled): Official Album Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 2:26 pm 
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evenslow wrote:
Mine wrote:
evenslow wrote:
Mine wrote:
They did hire a producer like you described, one Ed didn't go along with in the past interestingly.

Right, but Brendan has never had any interest in pushing them in new directions with regard to songwriting philosophy or theme or expansion of boundaries. He might be headstrong, but he's completely utilitarian, from how they describe him.

There isn't a head strong enough to be able to push Pearl Jam in a direction they don't want to take. They picked him for a reason.

I think a serious analysis about what works and doesn't for them has to start with understanding what worked for them in the past. It's something the band never understood in the 1st place and it's at the core of their current issues.
I don't think Pearl Jam need to experiment or deviate their sound significantly from what they've done so far. I'd be more than ok with them doing what they're actually good at, as opposed to trying something new and not really succeeding. I mean this very practically. I don't care if they tried something new if doesn't work out when i'm picking what music to listen to. I'd rather pick someone else who's better at where Pearl Jam is relatively weak.

After 10 studio albums, I'm ready for a noble failure.

I don't think there would be anything noble in this kind of failure because it would have to be conceived on pretentious premises to ultimately fail.
I think a record that displays the lack of talent and skills to produce a certain kind of music at this stage of their career has no real purpose. They are by all means way to pretentious to realise they make terrible artistic and producing choices when they do and they aren't about to start listening to an outsider producer 25 years into their career.
Besides i think many would argue that the run from No Code (or even Vitalogy) through Riot Act was more or less a series of noble failures.

I mean it's the result that counts at the end regardless of how they get there or what the original intent was. What the music is going to be judged by is the end product not whatever the idea was behind it. The end product itself is a series of choices that end up influencing how the song is perceived. Pearl Jam tends to make the wrong choices that often hurt the song. This pertains to the more obvious elements of a song like the individual instrumental and vocal parts to the more subtle like a guitar tone, room sound or certain vocal inflections. What really matters is how they sound together not in isolation. I think this affects how a piece of music is perceived on a slightly more subconscious level than how music tends to be judged most of the time meaning by focusing on a certain element. I think most of the band isn't really able to approach crafting the songs by focusing on how it all works together. They keep on talking about writing parts, or literally describing how they work in individual vacuums.
It's part of the reason why songs like Lightning Bolt are preferred live compared to their studio versions. Live the "subtleties" get lost and the bare bones of the song outweigh them and the bare bones of the songs aren't significantly better or worse than what they've always been.


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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Jam (self titled): Official Album Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 5:39 pm 
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Mine wrote:
evenslow wrote:
Mine wrote:
evenslow wrote:
Mine wrote:
They did hire a producer like you described, one Ed didn't go along with in the past interestingly.

Right, but Brendan has never had any interest in pushing them in new directions with regard to songwriting philosophy or theme or expansion of boundaries. He might be headstrong, but he's completely utilitarian, from how they describe him.

There isn't a head strong enough to be able to push Pearl Jam in a direction they don't want to take. They picked him for a reason.

I think a serious analysis about what works and doesn't for them has to start with understanding what worked for them in the past. It's something the band never understood in the 1st place and it's at the core of their current issues.
I don't think Pearl Jam need to experiment or deviate their sound significantly from what they've done so far. I'd be more than ok with them doing what they're actually good at, as opposed to trying something new and not really succeeding. I mean this very practically. I don't care if they tried something new if doesn't work out when i'm picking what music to listen to. I'd rather pick someone else who's better at where Pearl Jam is relatively weak.

After 10 studio albums, I'm ready for a noble failure.

I don't think there would be anything noble in this kind of failure because it would have to be conceived on pretentious premises to ultimately fail.
I think a record that displays the lack of talent and skills to produce a certain kind of music at this stage of their career has no real purpose. They are by all means way to pretentious to realise they make terrible artistic and producing choices when they do and they aren't about to start listening to an outsider producer 25 years into their career.
Besides i think many would argue that the run from No Code (or even Vitalogy) through Riot Act was more or less a series of noble failures.

I mean it's the result that counts at the end regardless of how they get there or what the original intent was. What the music is going to be judged by is the end product not whatever the idea was behind it. The end product itself is a series of choices that end up influencing how the song is perceived. Pearl Jam tends to make the wrong choices that often hurt the song. This pertains to the more obvious elements of a song like the individual instrumental and vocal parts to the more subtle like a guitar tone, room sound or certain vocal inflections. What really matters is how they sound together not in isolation. I think this affects how a piece of music is perceived on a slightly more subconscious level than how music tends to be judged most of the time meaning by focusing on a certain element. I think most of the band isn't really able to approach crafting the songs by focusing on how it all works together. They keep on talking about writing parts, or literally describing how they work in individual vacuums.
It's part of the reason why songs like Lightning Bolt are preferred live compared to their studio versions. Live the "subtleties" get lost and the bare bones of the song outweigh them and the bare bones of the songs aren't significantly better or worse than what they've always been.


I have no idea if I want to agree with this or not.


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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Jam (self titled): Official Album Thread
PostPosted: Thu March 23, 2017 2:26 am 
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Man the run from Severed Hand > Marker > Parachutes > Unemployable is all kinds of :luv:

Far and away the best 4 song combo from the last three records.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Jam (self titled): Official Album Thread
PostPosted: Thu March 23, 2017 2:29 am 
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evenslow wrote:
Man the run from Severed Hand > Marker > Parachutes > Unemployable is all kinds of :luv:

Far and away the best 4 song combo from the last three records.

Maybe even the record before it. :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Jam (self titled): Official Album Thread
PostPosted: Thu March 23, 2017 2:45 am 
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LetMeSleep wrote:
evenslow wrote:
Man the run from Severed Hand > Marker > Parachutes > Unemployable is all kinds of :luv:

Far and away the best 4 song combo from the last three records.

Maybe even the record before it. :shock:

I'm willing to go all the way if you are.

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Well fuckhead,


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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Jam (self titled): Official Album Thread
PostPosted: Thu March 23, 2017 2:47 am 
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Unemployable has become one of my favorite things this band has ever done.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Jam (self titled): Official Album Thread
PostPosted: Thu March 23, 2017 2:52 am 
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chewm wrote:
Unemployable has become one of my favorite things this band has ever done.

It's a gem.


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 Post subject: Re: Pearl Jam (self titled): Official Album Thread
PostPosted: Thu March 23, 2017 2:54 am 
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Birds in Hell wrote:
chewm wrote:
Not releasing another album has become one of my favorite things this band has ever done.

It's a gem.


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