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 Post subject: Re: What is the worst thing Pearl Jam has ever done?
PostPosted: Tue November 21, 2017 6:36 pm 
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XWayne wrote:
Monkey_Driven wrote:
It's not a single moment or decision, but I would say the gradual shift from conducting their business as artists to entertainers. It happened around 2006 or so.

I was thinking of the cease & desist against TVM (The Video Mission) and TSIS back in 2002, following the release of Birdman sessions.

http://www.blackredyellow.com/bryforums ... been-sued/

They started working against their fans (who released and spread videos and bootlegs), involving lawyers. For me it started going downhill from there.

Interesting, didn't know about this.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the worst thing Pearl Jam has ever done?
PostPosted: Tue November 21, 2017 7:24 pm 
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This may seem silly, but for me it's the editing of old tunes they've done. Specifically "Oh Beth" in MTV Unplugged & changing the line in Who You Are. Just baffling to me.

And I'm not even that mad about the Lost Dogs re-recording, that is at least somewhat defensible even if I don't love it.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the worst thing Pearl Jam has ever done?
PostPosted: Tue November 21, 2017 8:03 pm 
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They got old.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the worst thing Pearl Jam has ever done?
PostPosted: Tue November 21, 2017 8:06 pm 
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Sgt. Crackpot wrote:
They got old.


Only in age...

Spoiler: show
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 Post subject: Re: What is the worst thing Pearl Jam has ever done?
PostPosted: Tue November 21, 2017 8:28 pm 
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swan wrote:
This may seem silly, but for me it's the editing of old tunes they've done. Specifically "Oh Beth" in MTV Unplugged & changing the line in Who You Are. Just baffling to me.


I believe the "Who You Are" thing was not a revision, but the accidental use of an earlier mix.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the worst thing Pearl Jam has ever done?
PostPosted: Tue November 21, 2017 8:42 pm 
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I'm pretty certain that "zombie head pyramid" should be mentioned at least once in this thread


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 Post subject: Re: What is the worst thing Pearl Jam has ever done?
PostPosted: Tue November 21, 2017 11:32 pm 
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Oracle Appreciation Event


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 Post subject: Re: What is the worst thing Pearl Jam has ever done?
PostPosted: Tue November 21, 2017 11:55 pm 
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Monkey_Driven wrote:
EJ wrote:
Monkey_Driven wrote:
It's not a single moment or decision, but I would say the gradual shift from conducting their business as artists to entertainers. It happened around 2006 or so.

I agree with that in general. But, I think the shift started in 2003.


I could hear the argument for 2005.


This came out that year, and doesn’t seem to have helped matters.

https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/life/co ... andy_x.htm


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 Post subject: Re: What is the worst thing Pearl Jam has ever done?
PostPosted: Wed November 22, 2017 12:41 am 
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Considering how politically active the band has been since the beginning of their career, it was pretty shameful that they were mostly silent during the run-up to the 2016 US presidential election. Remember: Eddie spent most of the 2000 tour arguing that there would be no discernible difference between George W. Bush and Al Gore. I have no doubt that we'll see some "politically charged" songs in the future, but it's going to ring pretty hollow.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the worst thing Pearl Jam has ever done?
PostPosted: Wed November 22, 2017 12:56 am 
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Simple Torture wrote:
Considering how politically active the band has been since the beginning of their career, it was pretty shameful that they were mostly silent during the run-up to the 2016 US presidential election. Remember: Eddie spent most of the 2000 tour arguing that there would be no discernible difference between George W. Bush and Al Gore. I have no doubt that we'll see some "politically charged" songs in the future, but it's going to ring pretty hollow.

Why? He said a lot of anti trump shit throughout the past couple years leading up. Why would saying anything again/now ring it hollow?

i was only a little surprised he was fully giving a ringing endorsement to someone else but...?


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 Post subject: Re: What is the worst thing Pearl Jam has ever done?
PostPosted: Wed November 22, 2017 1:01 am 
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Strat wrote:
Simple Torture wrote:
Considering how politically active the band has been since the beginning of their career, it was pretty shameful that they were mostly silent during the run-up to the 2016 US presidential election. Remember: Eddie spent most of the 2000 tour arguing that there would be no discernible difference between George W. Bush and Al Gore. I have no doubt that we'll see some "politically charged" songs in the future, but it's going to ring pretty hollow.

Why? He said a lot of anti trump shit throughout the past couple years leading up. Why would saying anything again/now ring it hollow?

i was only a little surprised he was fully giving a ringing endorsement to someone else but...?


Maybe I'm over-reacting based on the shows I went to in 2016. In Boston Ed said, "No matter how you vote, just make sure to vote." Then he went on to discuss legalizing pot. It feeds into what a lot of people are discussing in this thread: the band trying to entertain as opposed to pushing envelopes and buttons.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the worst thing Pearl Jam has ever done?
PostPosted: Wed November 22, 2017 1:15 am 
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yeah i remember one of the fenway shows early he said something directed at trump then later in the show apologized saying he didnt want to be 'divisive' ... i get the sense they have gotten so big with so many corporate intertanglings that they just deliberately don't overtly rock the political boat anymore ... who knows, maybe something happened behind the scenes too that caused them to be more quiet about it ... but, to give them the benefit of the doubt, i could see it justified along the lines of 'we know our fans mean well and we don't want to upset or alienate the politically ignorant ones and send them in a bad direction / so let's just try and focus on the positive goals in non-candidate/party related terms' ... things like Global Citizen ... where it's basically implied ... and not like PJ plays in red states anymore anyways

that said, eddie solo in Europe seemed to unleash on trump with no filter

so maybe its just a function of the band having more sponsors connected to them when they are in the states... like fancy baseball owners and NASCAR board members and such


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 Post subject: Re: What is the worst thing Pearl Jam has ever done?
PostPosted: Wed November 22, 2017 1:16 am 
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You must have missed Eddie changing the lyrics to "Heil heil the lucky ones I refer to those who Trump"

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 Post subject: Re: What is the worst thing Pearl Jam has ever done?
PostPosted: Wed November 22, 2017 1:20 am 
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i did. a scathing rebuke, indeed


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 Post subject: Re: What is the worst thing Pearl Jam has ever done?
PostPosted: Wed November 22, 2017 4:26 am 
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cutuphalfdead wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
I say this with 100% sincerity: Ten Club business practices and customer support.

To expand upon this: They become creatively bankrupt yet still have a legion of loyal fans. Their reward? $15 to ship an envelope of stickers and an attitude of complete contempt when the customer complains it arrived damaged.


I'm down with this. All the other stuff -- playing it safe as entertainers, running out of juice creatively, etc. -- is disappointing but ultimately not important. But treating your customers poorly sucks.

There was also that time that Eddie dropped his guitar so his tech couldn't get it -- that was pretty crappy.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the worst thing Pearl Jam has ever done?
PostPosted: Wed November 22, 2017 4:35 am 
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96583UP wrote:
Oracle Appreciation Event


Yup.

And I love this:
(even his snare sounds like a tom)


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 Post subject: Re: What is the worst thing Pearl Jam has ever done?
PostPosted: Wed November 22, 2017 5:46 am 
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Hiatus

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 Post subject: Re: What is the worst thing Pearl Jam has ever done?
PostPosted: Wed November 22, 2017 12:19 pm 
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Sirens

Completely unforgivable.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the worst thing Pearl Jam has ever done?
PostPosted: Wed November 22, 2017 3:07 pm 
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Kevin Davis wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
cutuphalfdead wrote:
I say this with 100% sincerity: Ten Club business practices and customer support.

To expand upon this: They become creatively bankrupt yet still have a legion of loyal fans. Their reward? $15 to ship an envelope of stickers and an attitude of complete contempt when the customer complains it arrived damaged.


I'm down with this. All the other stuff -- playing it safe as entertainers, running out of juice creatively, etc. -- is disappointing but ultimately not important. But treating your customers poorly sucks.

There was also that time that Eddie dropped his guitar so his tech couldn't get it -- that was pretty crappy.

I agree with this.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the worst thing Pearl Jam has ever done?
PostPosted: Wed November 22, 2017 4:37 pm 
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Kevin Davis wrote:
I'm down with this. All the other stuff -- playing it safe as entertainers, running out of juice creatively, etc. -- is disappointing but ultimately not important. But treating your customers poorly sucks

It really comes down to how you most interact with the band. If you don't need to see them live again, don't care about repackagings of old ideas, prefer studio inventiveness to live energy, and don't care at all for merch...then the opposite is true.

The Ebeneezering going on at the club is alternately baffling/amusing (sort of like "borrowing Ed's boots" stories), but it has literally never impacted me. The lack of creative engagement by the band, however, ultimately represents (or produces) the severing of an emotional communication that used to matter to me quite a lot.

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