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Rate Betterman
5 Stars 71%  71%  [ 20 ]
4 Stars 21%  21%  [ 6 ]
3 Stars 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
2 Stars 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
1 Star 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 28
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 Post subject: Re: Song of the Moment: Betterman
PostPosted: Sun November 26, 2017 1:42 pm 
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mjd, have you read the last few pages? The Atlanta performance is actually what they use for the album, for the most part. IT IS THE BETTERMAN ON THE ALBUM

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 Post subject: Re: Song of the Moment: Betterman
PostPosted: Sun November 26, 2017 5:00 pm 
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E.H. Ruddock wrote:
mjd, have you read the last few pages? The Atlanta performance is actually what they use for the album, for the most part. IT IS THE BETTERMAN ON THE ALBUM

Ha ha.

Ruddo’s Right.


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 Post subject: Re: Song of the Moment: Betterman
PostPosted: Sun November 26, 2017 5:02 pm 
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He was talking about Save It For Later.


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 Post subject: Re: Song of the Moment: Betterman
PostPosted: Sun November 26, 2017 5:11 pm 
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mikejasond wrote:
Again, delicate beautiful first chorus. Eddie sounds so good when the arrangement is stripped down like this

Now you expect to hear verse 2. A repeat of verse 1. But wait, whats this? It starts out like another verse, the same as the last one...but then this drum fill comes in and boom we're taking off, a completely new feel and sound. The music is completely different. Eddie's singing the same melody but it sounds so different in feel now.

Pearl Jam, inventors of the quiet-intro-into-full-band formula

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 Post subject: Re: Song of the Moment: Betterman
PostPosted: Sun November 26, 2017 5:30 pm 
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theplatypus wrote:
mikejasond wrote:
Again, delicate beautiful first chorus. Eddie sounds so good when the arrangement is stripped down like this

Now you expect to hear verse 2. A repeat of verse 1. But wait, whats this? It starts out like another verse, the same as the last one...but then this drum fill comes in and boom we're taking off, a completely new feel and sound. The music is completely different. Eddie's singing the same melody but it sounds so different in feel now.

Pearl Jam, inventors of the quiet-intro-into-full-band formula


That cracked me up.


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 Post subject: Re: Song of the Moment: Betterman
PostPosted: Sun November 26, 2017 6:20 pm 
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I have a friend who is a huge Bruce Springsteen fan, and has credited him with inventing the backbeat. He also once said Bruce was the first writer to try and craft longer, more literate rock and roll songs, so I moved away.

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 Post subject: Re: Song of the Moment: Betterman
PostPosted: Sun November 26, 2017 7:25 pm 
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ledvedderman wrote:
theplatypus wrote:
mikejasond wrote:
Again, delicate beautiful first chorus. Eddie sounds so good when the arrangement is stripped down like this

Now you expect to hear verse 2. A repeat of verse 1. But wait, whats this? It starts out like another verse, the same as the last one...but then this drum fill comes in and boom we're taking off, a completely new feel and sound. The music is completely different. Eddie's singing the same melody but it sounds so different in feel now.

Pearl Jam, inventors of the quiet-intro-into-full-band formula


That cracked me up.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Song of the Moment: Betterman
PostPosted: Mon November 27, 2017 3:16 pm 
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E.H. Ruddock wrote:
mjd, have you read the last few pages? The Atlanta performance is actually what they use for the album, for the most part. IT IS THE BETTERMAN ON THE ALBUM


Im talking about Save it for Later.

Its a kind of nice song. If it reminds me of Betterman maybe it reminds me of the 20 seconds of the second chorus of betterman.

But its lacking all the other parts of Betterman


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 Post subject: Re: Song of the Moment: Betterman
PostPosted: Mon November 27, 2017 3:17 pm 
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PHATJ wrote:
ledvedderman wrote:
theplatypus wrote:
mikejasond wrote:
Again, delicate beautiful first chorus. Eddie sounds so good when the arrangement is stripped down like this

Now you expect to hear verse 2. A repeat of verse 1. But wait, whats this? It starts out like another verse, the same as the last one...but then this drum fill comes in and boom we're taking off, a completely new feel and sound. The music is completely different. Eddie's singing the same melody but it sounds so different in feel now.

Pearl Jam, inventors of the quiet-intro-into-full-band formula


That cracked me up.

:lol:


Not inventors, but they certainly are masters of it. ESPECIALLY in Daughter. Its done EXCEPTIONALLY well in Daughter. Can't think of many songs that do it like Daughter. Its not just a quiet intro, they usually start the verses (or in Betterman's cases the chorus) before adding the full band, and the way the full band comes in is not where you would expect it to. Its pulled off PHENOMENALLY in Daughter.

Cant think of many songs that bring in the full band midway through the first verse without breaking the feel at all


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 Post subject: Re: Song of the Moment: Betterman
PostPosted: Mon November 27, 2017 4:20 pm 
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Well for every Betterman or Daughter where that method appears to work, there’s a Gone, Unthought Known, or Lightning Bolt that tries to do the same...but sucks.


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 Post subject: Re: Song of the Moment: Betterman
PostPosted: Mon November 27, 2017 4:39 pm 
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mikejasond wrote:
without breaking the feel at all


mikejasond wrote:
boom we're taking off, a completely new feel


mikejasond wrote:
it sounds so different in feel now.

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 Post subject: Re: Song of the Moment: Betterman
PostPosted: Mon November 27, 2017 5:53 pm 
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Its badly worded I suppose. The transition is completely seamless and smooth even though the feel is different. Its a different feel but it doesn't feel abrupt it just feels natural.

I dunno how to word the awesomness of that Daughter transition


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 Post subject: Re: Song of the Moment: Betterman
PostPosted: Mon November 27, 2017 6:00 pm 
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mikejasond wrote:
Its badly worded I suppose. The transition is completely seamless and smooth even though the feel is different. Its a different feel but it doesn't feel abrupt it just feels natural.

I dunno how to word the awesomness of that Daughter transition


Image


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 Post subject: Re: Song of the Moment: Betterman
PostPosted: Mon November 27, 2017 7:46 pm 
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mikejasond wrote:
the feel is different. Its a different feel but it doesn't feel abrupt it just feels natural.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Song of the Moment: Betterman
PostPosted: Mon November 27, 2017 9:34 pm 
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Do you really not understand what Im trying to get at? Maybe somebody can word it better.

The Daughter transition is insanely seamless, the verse flows perfectly, the rhythm just rides along, yet the instrumentation and finer points of the tone change drastically


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 Post subject: Re: Song of the Moment: Betterman
PostPosted: Mon November 27, 2017 9:34 pm 
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It both changes a lot and not at all at the same time


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 Post subject: Re: Song of the Moment: Betterman
PostPosted: Mon November 27, 2017 9:55 pm 
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It changes by not changing at all

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 Post subject: Re: Song of the Moment: Betterman
PostPosted: Mon November 27, 2017 10:58 pm 
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mikejasond wrote:
Do you really not understand what Im trying to get at? Maybe somebody can word it better.

The Daughter transition is insanely seamless, the verse flows perfectly, the rhythm just rides along, yet the instrumentation and finer points of the tone change drastically

Everyone understands what you are describing, mjd. That isn’t the issue. What we all find funny is that you act like PJ is the only band that has ever done the slow build up of a song from single instrument to full band. The sheer amazement and joy you find in this simple and popular formula is what we all giggle about. Sure, Better Man and Daughter do this well, and I love both of those songs, but to act like these are groundbreaking compositions based on the quiet —> loud or single instrument —> full band arrangement is absurd.

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 Post subject: Re: Song of the Moment: Betterman
PostPosted: Tue November 28, 2017 12:04 am 
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theplatypus wrote:
It changes by not changing at all


Exactly. The progression in the verse and chorus are exactly the same. The vocal melody changes slightly in the chorus. The only thing in that whole song that changes is the breakdown.


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 Post subject: Re: Song of the Moment: Betterman
PostPosted: Tue November 28, 2017 12:50 am 
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....You do realize there is more to a song than chords right? The sound is very different even if the chords are the same.


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