Song of the Moment: Betterman

[stupidmop]

From memory (and I haven't got my copy of 5AOne nearby), Ed was involved in High School plays and musicals so he was not just talented but was seeking the stage (and attention??). He certainly was aware of how he was being perceived and ramped it up throughout 92. He also suffered from self doubt (IMO) and felt he didn't earn the acclaim/stardom/record sales. He felt he didn't pay his dues. Thus the whole touring in a van when everyone else got a plane. That was just stupid behaviour from a petulant shit. That's disrespectful to everyone else who is in the business of touring as he risked all kinds of fates (sickness, burnout etc).

I definitely agree with that part. And i've never thought he didn't want to be successful/ play for a lot of people or bought into that eddie was just chilling on a beach until the universe gave him a band angle. I think i've just given him a pass for stupid shit said in 92 and prior cause they didn't know how big they'd get. Like i don't think he wrote alive cause he thought oh yeah people will eat up this angst, for all he knew no one would ever hear it.

And the stuff in the book i was refering too was the stuff about him getting into physical fights apparently with his parents, er allegedly, and shit like that. All i was saying was that it was possible he was actually still getting over that stuff, He doesn't come off as particularly well adjusted. Though i guess i should remember that the book could be entirely bullshit, and you barely get an actual conversation with eddie in it, only interviews and on stage snippets, but still.

I just feel Ed was too self aware and was smart enough to play those particular angles through the press. And then he needed to escape it all.

It's always this that i've had a problem with really it's not that i think ed's stupid, but you hear him talk or read an old interview and i always think is he hearing himself say this crap? There's some 93/94 ones that are a mess, especially anything to do with cobain dying. Theres one where he starts talking about how pissed he is that his mom spoke to some radio station. I can't bring myself to believe he planned that shit. If he was playing up to the press he was really awful at it/ unsubtle with it. Or he is stupid and has a completely weird idea of what is going to sound 'cool' for an interview. And the interviews go mostly the same way now, less angsty, but generally he rambles ad infinitum about shit the questions don't even ask. There was even a recentish one where he talked about talking to or forgiving his stepdad or whatever, so he's either commited to keeping up this storyline for himself, or he just felt like talking to the interviewer about it for some weirdass reason. Both scenarios are weird, i guess i'd just rather believe the latter.

Idk i'm not disagreeing with what you said completely, i've just always found this theory (for lack of a better word) hard to go with.

[Norris]

Wait, so now you can't be a shy, socially awkward weirdo and a drama kid in high school at the same time? Do any of you remember high school? Plenty of those drama nerds weren't attention seekers in any other aspect of their lives.

[LetMeSleep]

I guess what I was getting at was that Ed didn't want to be seen as playing the media game. He didn't want his interviews to appear polished or for him to be seen as comfortable in those situations. Sure, he may have actually been uncomfortable but this was a guy who was fronting a band in front of thousands of people.

Which also ties in to the high school discussion. From memory (and we're talking more than 20yrs ago here) the socially awkward guys/gals tended to be in bands or play minor roles. At my schools the main parts were mostly taken by the confident, outgoing people. Or did they seem that way because of the parts they played? I know that I was okay with being in the school orchestra and in several bands but would never have been under the spotlight.

I do believe that most known artists are basically seeking attention otherwise they wouldn't be releasing their work to the public.

[stip]

you can want attention for your art and not want attention drawn to yourself. It's also entirely possible someone like ed wanted sme notice but was overwhelemed byw hat he got, and the speed with which he got it. There is a difference between becoming famous and becoming an icon.

[LetMeSleep]

you can want attention for your art and not want attention drawn to yourself. It's also entirely possible someone like ed wanted sme notice but was overwhelemed byw hat he got, and the speed with which he got it. There is a difference between becoming famous and becoming an icon.

Absolutely Stip. But if Ed had been slick in interviews it would have not worked with his stage persona and lyrics. And writing that I realise that I've put persona.

[stupidmop]

Sure, but i don't think that lack of slickness is an affectation or something, i think he just sucks at it.

Plays weren't really a big thing in my school so i can barely remember any or the people in them. Plays in school infront of your friends and people you know is a different kind of attention to being in a band/ being yourself in interviews that are gonna be read by an insane amount of people.

[harmless]

I guess what I was getting at was that Ed didn't want to be seen as playing the media game. He didn't want his interviews to appear polished or for him to be seen as comfortable in those situations. Sure, he may have actually been uncomfortable but this was a guy who was fronting a band in front of thousands of people.

Which also ties in to the high school discussion. From memory (and we're talking more than 20yrs ago here) the socially awkward guys/gals tended to be in bands or play minor roles. At my schools the main parts were mostly taken by the confident, outgoing people. Or did they seem that way because of the parts they played? I know that I was okay with being in the school orchestra and in several bands but would never have been under the spotlight.

I do believe that most known artists are basically seeking attention otherwise they wouldn't be releasing their work to the public.

My perception of Ed has always been that he's totally comfortable and happy playing music in front of thousands of people in an auditorium, but cripplingly shy when the music stops, and everywhere else. And that's not unheard of for socially anxious people.

[yofismom]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that he wrote betterman when he was 17. Or is that porch? Or am I making this up?

I don't know about that but have you seen this vid of a friend of mine asking Ed about Porch and Black... doesn't sound like he wrote it alone in the studio though I guess that could have been where he was...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ3XIKgkn8g

[yofismom]

Yeah Betterman was played with Bad Radio (Vedder active 88-90) when he was 23. Maybe he did write it when he was 17. Maybe not. The whole my daddy/my mummy crap just seems a little forced and he definitely could have manipulated events to support his stage persona. We have to remember that he was in his late twenties during the Ten/Vs/Vitalogy period.

He could have done but he also could have "manipulated" aspects of real life into a story without so much deliberate intent regarding his persona but just because it's the story he came up with from wherever he started.

I think the guy was a mess back then, I remember thinking he was really an ass, but it's extraordinary how he's matured especially how he's done it with all this attention on him. He really stepped up to the role that he found himself in. Or to put it more bluntly, he seriously seems to have gotten his shit together.

[Lounge Lizard]

Sure, but i don't think that lack of slickness is an affectation or something, i think he just sucks at it.

Plays weren't really a big thing in my school so i can barely remember any or the people in them. Plays in school infront of your friends and people you know is a different kind of attention to being in a band/ being yourself in interviews that are gonna be read by an insane amount of people.

My school staged "Fiddler On The Roof" and it was all kinds of awesome. I remember it quite vividly to this day, and I also recall a good half of the faces and names of the kids who were in it. Especially Emma. Oh, Emma...

[mikejasond]

This is one of the greatest pop songs I've ever heard.

I always cycle on my favorite Pearl Jam songs, because they're so DIFFERENT. Black, Even Flow, Corduroy, Elderly Woman...

But whenever this song is on I am blown away by it.

I think what gets me most is that there isn't a moment of repetition. Its short and snappy and constantly changing and building. It's just phenomenal a song, and its one of their best live too.

[birdsinboxes]

Of all the times I've heard this song live with all the tags and whatnot, nothing has ever come close to MSG 98. Its perfect. To this day I want that damn show from a soundboard. I was at the show and have the boot thats been around since. So many standout versions from that night…Betterman tops all of them.

[mikejasond]

I want to once again say...this song is just amazing. Its SO GOOD

[lecherouslittlestump]

If PJ went all out and released it as a single and put out a music video and performed it on SNL Leno etc back in the 90s at the height of their fame...would it be a #1 hit?

If I Got ID could get to #6 in the charts...

[mikejasond]

I wasnt really around then but I'd say definitely considering their other songs that are hits.

[Anders]

Betterman from 1989:
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/eddie-vedder-pearl-jam-lead-singer-better-man-in-1989-w498329

[Sgt. Crackpot]

The incredible thing about that is how finished the song already sounds. Very little changed in the arrangement, years later.

The drumming there made me cringe though. Sheesh.

[solat319]

OMG! This was me and my gf's song when we dated!!!

This song has stayed interesting to me over the years due to the many cool tags...state college 03 remains the greatest Save It For Later of all time in my opinion. A cool buzzcocks tag at Alpine in 03 also comes to mind....

Interesting choice of song to be "you and your gf's song"....you do realize what this song is all about, right? There is a reason why the protagonist is "dreaming in red"....

[ducko]

I have nothing to add, but enjoyed reading the thread. Thanks

[mikejasond]

Its incredible how early he made this considering its one of PJ's best written songs EVER